Drinking & Diving

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well, at the Dive Expo this week-end I found the answer ... this stuff is sold as, among other things, hangover helper for divers ... :shocked2:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I didn't see that listed on the website. Would you mind trying it for us?

I did try it ... tastes like ZipFizz.

From the website ... third paragraph on the home page ...

Whether it's for improved hydration, endurance, energy, focus with mental acuity, its natural extracts, or just for a hangover helper, divers are learning to trust Diver's D\Lyte™ as an indispensible piece of gear to ensure performance of their most valued equipment, The Human Body.

Then on the Hydration + Energy page ...

Drinking Diver's D\Lyte before a night out may reduce hangovers

It's probably great stuff for replacing lost fluids and electrolytes, etc ... I just found the use of hangovers as a sales pitch rather peculiar ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Diver0001]

That certainly is your prerogative, Paladin, but as the realm of alcohol and drug use fall within my area of clinical expertise I must say I find this comment sweeping, summary and conclusory. You have made no accommodation for or taken any consideration of the vast continuum that runs from complete abstinence to diagnosable substance use disorder.

I have to say that I kind of side with Paladin on this one.

And not because I'm a prude or because I really agree with his judgement of people who drink... I'm a pretty experienced drinker, all things considered. I don't drink at all anymore because of that fact (like a man looking over the precipice and not wanting to jump). I find "disciplined drinking" to be a contradiction in terms and exceedingly confusing. If someone feels a *need* to drink one drink then I don't understand at all how they can can feel a *need* to stop after one... or two... the times that I found "one or two" to fill the need are few and far between.

R..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have to say that I kind of side with Paladin on this one.

And not because I'm a prude or because I really agree with his judgement of people who drink... I'm a pretty experienced drinker, all things considered. I don't drink at all anymore because of that fact (like a man looking over the precipice and not wanting to jump). I find "disciplined drinking" to be a contradiction in terms and exceedingly confusing. If someone feels a *need* to drink one drink then I don't understand at all how they can can feel a *need* to stop after one... or two... the times that I found "one or two" to fill the need are few and far between.

R..

Who said anything about need?

Personally I don't drink much anymore ... and usually restrict it to one beer or one glass of wine with something to eat. But when I'm in a place where the weather's hot and I'm hungry, a beer can taste awfully good with an appropriate accoutrement. I almost always stop at one ... because the second one rarely tastes as good as the first one did.

There's a difference between "need" and "want", yanno ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Diver0001]

... because the second one rarely tastes as good as the first one did.

Then your experience is the very opposite of mine.

The first one always felt like "aahhhhhh ... heaven in bottle"

The second was a profound deepening of relaxation.

That would have been a good time to stop.

But it never ended like that. After that 2nd drink every drop was too much... and not enough.

The next day "heaven in a bottle" was "hell in a bottle" filled with guilt, shame, regret and new intentions.

At some point I limited myself to drinking once a week but the more I became involved in meditation and buddhism the harder it was to accept drinking as a "normal" behaviour.

Eventually water took the place of beer and I found myself increasingly unable to understand the "strangeness" of drinking.

R..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Back in the '80's I was heavy into sailboat racing. Drinking was a central part of our activities ... we even customized the deck of the boat to accommodate coozies with velcro strips so that we could set our beers down while tacking the boat. On race days we had a strict rule ... you can't crack open the second case until after we've crossed the starting line.

Twenty years later, when I again took up sailboat racing on this side of the country, my outlook was completely different ... I'd sometimes have a beer after the race, particularly on really hot days. Never had more than one. And sometimes I'd just say "no thanks, I had one last week".

One should not judge someone else's "need" according to their own ... because "need" can be different even for the same person, depending on time and circumstances..

A single beer isn't going to hurt anyone ... and, frankly, I think most folks can stop at one if there's a reason for them to want to ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Paladin]

That certainly is your prerogative, Paladin, but as the realm of alcohol and drug use fall within my area of clinical expertise I must say I find this comment sweeping, summary and conclusory. You have made no accommodation for or taken any consideration of the vast continuum that runs from complete abstinence to diagnosable substance use disorder.

There are many, many people who drink modestly without getting "drunk" and there are illegal substance users who do so without becoming "stoned," both terms which generally mean such things as "to stupefy or excite by the action of a chemical substance" and "incapable of acting as an ordinary prudent and cautious person would act under similar conditions." Prudent users of alcohol and recreational drugs often manifest no readily observable features of inebriation or intoxication. They are in good control of their faculties and behavior. Among substances users, for obvious reasons many of their friends and acquaintances well may have no knowledge of their situation.

Assuming that you are even able to identify who these users are, if you're going to steer clear of every person who drinks a beer or takes a toke on occasion you're likely to have a very limited social life, indeed. For example, see --> U.S. Drinking Rate Edges Up Slightly to 25-Year High and NIDA - Publications - NIDA Notes - Vol. 23, No. 3 - Tearoff.

Regards,

DocVikingo

Define "social life," please.

 

[DocVikingo]

I find "disciplined drinking" to be a contradiction in terms and exceedingly confusing. If someone feels a *need* to drink one drink then I don't understand at all how they can can feel a *need* to stop after one... or two... the times that I found "one or two" to fill the need are few and far between.R.

Hi Diver0001,

Okay, let's explore the concept. It's really pretty simple.

The individual who truly "needs" to have a drink or is unable to cease drinking before inebriation or intoxication set in, is not a "disciplined drinker". S/he is at least a partially uncontrolled drinker and very likely would be considered as falling within the pathological area along the continuum that runs from complete abstinence to diagnosable substance use disorder (e.g., Alcohol Abuse Disorder, Alcohol Dependence Disorder).

There are millions of disciplined drinkers who often have a glass or two of wine with dinner, a beer or two on a hot afternoon or a hard drink or two over the course of an evening, but who stop at that and rarely or never become impaired or engage in risky behaviors (e.g., driving or driving soon after that drinking) and certainly not "drunk" or "stoned."

Now if what you are referring to is “controlled drinking” v abstinence in those with histories of Alcohol Abuse Disorder or Alcohol Dependence Disorder, then that's a quite separate issue and is discussed here --> Alcoholism Abstinence.

I, too, would not buddy with a person who had used any substance known to meaningfully impair consciousness or the ability to modulate behavior in close enough temporal proximity to a dive to make it risky. I also would prefer not even to have such an individual on the boat.

However, I find statements such as, “It isn't just in the realm of diving that I shy away from people who drink. Beyond the acquaintance level, I have never been one to associate with people who drink or use drugs. Being around people who are drunk or stoned makes me uncomfortable. I just quietly keep a little distance.... I have seen what alcohol and drugs do to people and I want no part of it” to be insufficiently refined and thought out, and sweeping, summary and conclusory. Remember, we are discussing an extensive continuum of behavior here, not an all or nothing event.

People are entirely free to associate, no not associate, with whomever they wish. However, when providing a reason(s) for their choice(s) that reason should be informed, comport with the facts and have some logic to it.

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[DocVikingo]

Define "social life," please.

However you wish to define it, the fact is according to your statements you have reduced your potential friendship sphere by 67%, the percentage of U.S. adults who drink alcohol. For more detailed information on the demographics of the individuals you have excluded from your friendship realm, see the table in U.S. Drinking Rate Edges Up Slightly to 25-Year High.

Come to think of it, if I shied away beyond the acquaintance level from people who drank modestly to moderately, I'd have about 4 friends. And I'd have to exclude my mother and sister, both of whom have an occasional drink in the evening.

BTW, among my drinking friends, some of whom I've known for decades, I've witnessed not a single event of wanton drunkenness.

Is excluding this many people from the possibility of being your friends justified by the facts and is it logical and reasonable? I guess that depends upon one's system of thinking, but it most definitely is not consistent with mine.

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[The Light Eternal]

Define "social life," please.

When I started out at college I pledged to not be a drinker. I decided I would not drink until I turned 21. When it came up in conversation I would mention it. I soon learned that because I told people I didn't drink I didn't get invited to as many parties. However, if I simply did not mention my non-drinking and didn't drink at parties I was fine.

Basically long story short no one cares if you don't drink, but refusing to socialize with drinkers is going to cut you off from most people.

 

[Paladin]

When I started out at college I pledged to not be a drinker. I decided I would not drink until I turned 21. When it came up in conversation I would mention it. I soon learned that because I told people I didn't drink I didn't get invited to as many parties. However, if I simply did not mention my non-drinking and didn't drink at parties I was fine.

Basically long story short no one cares if you don't drink, but refusing to socialize with drinkers is going to cut you off from most people.

Not a problem. I've never been the party-going type and, like I said, I don't like being around people who are drinking. It makes me uncomfortable.