Swimming Skills Assessment

[seaducer]

Can someone really get scuba certified without being able to swim confidently?
That sounds just wrong to me.
I did notice that the Padi OW course assumes you are a reasonable swimmer. From the sound of things that a heck of an assumption.
Is it a case of -"we want your money" so such a basic skill is left till the student has committed heavilly (financialy)?
A cynical viewpoint I guess but frankly I would have thought the first skill the student should demonstrate is that they can swim 200m in swim gear (no dive equipment) and that they can stay on the surface for 10 minutes.

PADI does have a swim test, and the distance in more than enough for a competent instructor to evaluate whether or not you can swim.

The problem I have is that there is really not much of a standard, and really poor swimmers can slip through as the instructor has no basis for failing someone who can barely swim that distance but manages to finish.

I think the slowest person in my niece's class took almost a full half hour to swim it, while my niece at 12 did it in less than 10 minutes.

I am all for people being able to make their own decisions, I do not like when someone assumes the authority to protect adults from themselves.

But if you are going to have a swim test/standard

Im just sayin...

 

[Frosty]

PADI does have a swim test, and the distance in more than enough for a competent instructor to evaluate whether or not you can swim.

The problem I have is that there is really not much of a standard, and really poor swimmers can slip through as the instructor has no basis for failing someone who can barely swim that distance but manages to finish.

I think the slowest person in my niece's class took almost a full half hour to swim it, while my niece at 12 did it in less than 10 minutes.

I am all for people being able to make their own decisions, I do not like when someone assumes the authority to protect adults from themselves.

But if you are going to have a swim test/standard

Im just sayin...

"sounds" to me that there should be a time limit on it. surely a person needs to be at least a reasonable swimmer. I mean half an hour to do 200 yards/metres is silly.
I'm involved in rider training and whilst being trained you get as much time as you like to learn a skill but when it comes to the test its a simple pass/fail

 

[pjhansman]

"sounds" to me that there should be a time limit on it. surely a person needs to be at least a reasonable swimmer. I mean half an hour to do 200 yards/metres is silly.
I'm involved in rider training and whilst being trained you get as much time as you like to learn a skill but when it comes to the test its a simple pass/fail

Why should it matter if it takes 30 seconds or 30 minutes? When you do rider training, you're training to actually ride.....yes? I've seen nothing in this thread that convinces me that one's ability to swim well (or swim fast) has anything to do with diving. I passed the PADI tests, but it wasn't pretty.

I struggle to come up with a scenerio that would make me "lose" my wetsuit, BCD, dSMB, and fins all at the same time. However, if that actually happened, nobody has a stopwatch, and there are no style points given for survival. Just staying above water.

In my opinion, what is most important is being comfortable and confident in one's abilities UNDER water.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Why should it matter if it takes 30 seconds or 30 minutes? When you do rider training, you're training to actually ride.....yes? I've seen nothing in this thread that convinces me that one's ability to swim well (or swim fast) has anything to do with diving. I passed the PADI tests, but it wasn't pretty.

I struggle to come up with a scenerio that would make me "lose" my wetsuit, BCD, dSMB, and fins all at the same time. However, if that actually happened, nobody has a stopwatch, and there are no style points given for survival. Just staying above water.

In my opinion, what is most important is being comfortable and confident in one's abilities UNDER water.

Do you think that a person's interest and willingness to improve one aspect of watermanship proficiency says anything about that person's attitude as a diver?

 

[pjhansman]

Do you think that a person's interest and willingness to improve one aspect of watermanship proficiency says anything about that person's attitude as a diver?

Absolutely.....I have a fairly intense workout program that I do almost every day, and I spend as much time as I can diving, including pool sessions almost every weekend. I'm thinking that shows my "interest and willingness to improve one aspect of watermanship proficiency", don't you? Interestingly enough, I live on a lake and also enjoy waterskiing and wake boarding.....although by your standards I probably shouldn't participate in either.

You apparently missed the point of my post....or are ignoring it.

I have negative buoyancy in fresh water.....as a result, I don't enjoy swimming and never have. But I love being in, and particularly under the water. In my opinion, my lack of swimming skills does not make me any less of a diver.

 

[Medicdiver0125]

IMO a persons ability to swim not only effects how comfortable they are in the water, but how well they will be able to mitigate some situations during diving. Also if you are going to do or try to advance at anything water sport related it is probably a good idea to be proficient in swimming. What that means to everyone is different though. Just my thoughts.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Absolutely.....I have a fairly intense workout program that I do almost every day, and I spend as much time as I can diving, including pool sessions almost every weekend. I'm thinking that shows my "interest and willingness to improve one aspect of watermanship proficiency", don't you? Interestingly enough, I live on a lake and also enjoy waterskiing and wake boarding.....although by your standards I probably shouldn't participate in either.

You apparently missed the point of my post....or are ignoring it.

I have negative buoyancy in fresh water.....as a result, I don't enjoy swimming and never have. But I love being in, and particularly under the water. In my opinion, my lack of swimming skills does not make me any less of a diver.

No, you missed the point of mine. You said that you've seen nothing in this thread that convinces you that one's ability to swim well has anything to do with diving. My point was that if a diver discovers that swimming is a weakness during a diving course and fails to take measures to improve that weakness, then what else might that diver fail to improve? While weak swimming ability doesn't necessarily mean a lack of "comfort" in the water it might tell me that a diver isn't willing to become a more dependable team member.

 

[pjhansman]

No, you missed the point of mine. You said that you've seen nothing in this thread that convinces you that one's ability to swim well has anything to do with diving. My point was that if a diver discovers that swimming is a weakness during a diving course and fails to take measures to improve that weakness, then what else might that diver fail to improve? While weak swimming ability doesn't necessarily mean a lack of "comfort" in the water it might tell me that a diver isn't willing to become a more dependable team member.

I didn't "discover" my weak swimming ability during a diving course. I'm closer to 60 then 50 and, living on a lake, I've pretty much known about it for a while. And no, I have no intention of taking a swimming course.

If it is your perception that this makes me a "weak link" in the team, no problem, because odds are good we'll never dive together.

For more then 20 years of my career I was an active member of an underground Mine Rescue Team. Yes Virginia, there are actually others in the world that are well trained as a TEAM to use both open and closed circuit SCBA in a VERY dangerous environment. Not only does this experience help me in my diving, but taught me the buddy system in situations that could quickly turn into a nightmare.

I would suggest there are many ways to measure the "value" of a diver as a team member, other than their ability to learn to do laps in a pool. Perhaps testing a person for claustrophobia may be much more important.

And I still haven't seen anything in this thread that convinces me that one's ability to swim well has anything to do with diving.

 

[MRadke]

Trace, I give you this. The ability to swim well would certainly be an asset to diving. However, there are an awful lot of people like myself, who are equipment and training savvy, that learn to adapt well to diving. I can't fly by flapping my arms either, but with the proper equipment and training, I'm sure that I can be adept at that too.

Mike

 

[boulderjohn]

No, you missed the point of mine. You said that you've seen nothing in this thread that convinces you that one's ability to swim well has anything to do with diving. My point was that if a diver discovers that swimming is a weakness during a diving course and fails to take measures to improve that weakness, then what else might that diver fail to improve? While weak swimming ability doesn't necessarily mean a lack of "comfort" in the water it might tell me that a diver isn't willing to become a more dependable team member.

Trace, I'm confused by this response. If one determines that a particular skill is not important for a particular pursuit, why does it reflect badly on him if he doesn't practice it? Wouldn't one become a more dependable team member if practice time were devoted to key diving skills like buoyancy control, air sharing, propulsion techniques, etc.? If I am in trouble under water, I hope my buddy has the diving skills to help me out effectively. If that diver fails to perform a critical act to help me while under water, it will be of little comfort to me to know, "Well, at least he is a proficient lap swimmer."