Who nose?

[Zeldah]

Sorry, but I think this single sentence is indicative of a serious problem. I think you have already determined in your own mind that holding your nose during your class is "getting by." If your instructor allows you, for some reason, to do so, will you be prepared to handle a lost mask on a post-cert dive by holding your nose and closing your eyes? It would be foolish to put yourself in such a position, but it would be your choice. But you would not be preared, IMHO, to buddy with anyone. You owe them more readiness than you are apparently willing to provide.

I believe you can overcome this problem with slow, gradual exposure. I think you need to talk to your instructor about giving you credit for the pool work you can complete successfully, and delay the rest of it until you're ready. Don't cheat yourself out of the thrill of a great sport!

Having said that, I'll say up front that I'm not an instructor, and your instructor may totally disagree with my personal opinion.

So just checking here - you think that you should be able to open your eyes and not hold your nose before becoming a responsible diver? From what I gather a lot of people keep their eyes closed underwater so wouldn't it be the same for them losing a mask? They are unable to see to recover it and my holding my nose wouldn't make much difference in that scenario. That's where my buddy comes in - right? You say I owe my buddy more readiness than I am apparently willing to provide. That is incorrect I am willing to learn what I do not know and that is why I posted.

 

[Karibelle]

Are we in an instructors-only forum? I feel qualified to discuss this, even though I am no doubt unqualified to teach a scuba class. You seem to be taking this discussion personally. I did not ever intend to impugn your credentials as an instructor.

Not taking it personally at all. Your understanding of agency standards (MY agency at least) seemed to be in question, otherwise you would not have posted, as the answer to your query would have been clear.

I apologize if my response came off otherwise.

kari

 

[Zeldah]

Not a problem Zeldah. One thing you may want to consider however... Turn your hot tub down! 103 degree water doesn't treat your eyes very well! Learned that the hard way. :blinking:

Ha ha that's exactly what I thought tonight when I looked at the temperature. It was 103. Wondered if my eyes would boil like onions in there :shocked2:

 

[g1138]

So just checking here - you think that you should be able to open your eyes and not hold your nose before becoming a responsible diver? From what I gather a lot of people keep their eyes closed underwater so wouldn't it be the same for them losing a mask? They are unable to see to recover it and my holding my nose wouldn't make much difference in that scenario. That's where my buddy comes in - right? You say I owe my buddy more readiness than I am apparently willing to provide. That is incorrect I am willing to learn what I do not know and that is why I posted.

Careful here, a diver should be self-reliable and sufficient. The buddy is an extra safety line, like a pony bottle, you don't use them unless you absolutely need them (not to say you can't interact with them though). If you ever run into a problem underwater you must first turn to yourself to solve it. If you can't then your buddy comes in.

I believe it would be safer for a diver to be comfortable enough to swim maskless, with both hands free, and eyes at the very least squinted (for those wearing contacts or sensitive eyes)
I myself squint when I'm maskless because I don't want my contacts to dry out or get ocean water in them (that stuff can get pretty gross on the surface).

You soon learn that when you're on vacation your insta-buddy isn't always a buddy.
Here at my school we train divers for 8 weeks, drilling into them how to be self-sufficient and how to keep good buddy contact. Even then I can count more times than I have fingers and toes of how someone left their buddy in the dust because they saw a fish or were navigating eyes down on the their compass for 10 mins straight (yes I time these things when I TA ).

 

[vladimir]

Not taking it personally at all. Your understanding of agency standards (MY agency at least) seemed to be in question, otherwise you would not have posted, as the answer to your query would have been clear.

I apologize if my response came off otherwise.

kari

No problem. Yes, my statement that "I hope that they allow you to exercise enough discretion" was, I thought, a frank admission that I did not know one way or the other. I take it then, that they do not allow you that discretion. Thank you. That's a shame, in my opinion, though I suppose there is some benefit in standardizing the appraisal of students.

 

[Zeldah]

Careful here, a diver should be self reliable. The buddy is a safety line. If you ever run into a problem underwater you must first turn to yourself to solve it. If you can't then your buddy comes in.

I believe it would be safer for a diver to be comfortable enough to swim maskless, with both hands free, and eyes at the very least squinted (for those wearing contacts or sensitive eyes)
I myself squint when I'm maskless because I don't want my contacts to dry out or get ocean water in them (that stuff can get pretty gross on the surface).

You soon learn that when you're on vacation your insta-buddy isn't always a buddy.
Here at my school we train divers for 8 weeks, drilling into them how to be self sufficient and how to keep good buddy contact. Even then I can count more times than I have fingers and toes of how someone left their buddy in the dust because they saw a fish or were navigating eyes down on the their compass for 10 mins straight (yes I time these things when I TA ).

Thanks - you know I wish that my instructor had told me that, he said that it was fine to not open your eyes and that most people don't, especially with contacts but I do understand from you that it seems like we should all be able to do it. Tech question here - it says in Padi that the human eye cannot focus underwater so how much can you actually see anyway. Never did open my eyes underwater as a kid. Did try once in the pool last week for a few secs abd was a total blur and made me really nervous and uncomfortable and didn't think from the instructors words that I needed to keep trying.

 

[Zeldah]

Here at my school we train divers for 8 weeks, drilling into them how to be self-sufficient and how to keep good buddy contact.

Hi G1138

What organisation are you with that runs an 8 week class?

Thanks

 

[Karibelle]

No problem. Yes, my statement that "I hope that they allow you to exercise enough discretion" was, I thought, a frank admission that I did not know one way or the other. I take it then, that they do not allow you that discretion. Thank you. That's a shame, in my opinion, though I suppose there is some benefit in standardizing the appraisal of students.

From my manual:

PADI courses/programs are performance based. Certification
signifies that the student demonstrated mastery of all course
knowledge and skill performance requirements.

@vladimir, you clearly don't have the training to understand what that means.

 

[vladimir]

From my manual:

@vladimir, you clearly don't have the training to understand what that means.

You are taking it personally.

Maybe I can hold my nose through one of your courses and get closer to "mastery."

(I can see you'll need to have the last word, so this will be mine.)

 

[highdesert]

So just checking here - you think that you should be able to open your eyes and not hold your nose before becoming a responsible diver? From what I gather a lot of people keep their eyes closed underwater so wouldn't it be the same for them losing a mask? They are unable to see to recover it and my holding my nose wouldn't make much difference in that scenario. That's where my buddy comes in - right? You say I owe my buddy more readiness than I am apparently willing to provide. That is incorrect I am willing to learn what I do not know and that is why I posted.

Yes, I absolutely believe you should be able to open your eyes and not hold your nose before becoming a responsible diver. And regarding a buddy, the issue is not whether your buddy will be able to aid you if you lose your mask ... the issue is, if you have your eyes closed and are holding your nose with one hand, will you be able to aid your buddy? Again, the above thoughts are personal opinion only.

This is not a personal attack, Zeldah. I think you're getting some great opinions here. But please take a good look at both sides of the equation, not to mention protecting your own well-being.