Pony/Redundant Set-up

[doctormike]

Also take note. Your back up PONY should be considered in your gas management system. You need to factor this in when planning your dive. For both you and your buddy. This is all part of good diving prictices and good gas management. Knowing your SAC rate is key in proper gas planning.

I think that I know what you are saying here, but I'm not sure.

Just to clarify, I don't think that the contents of a pony bottle should ever be considered in gas planning (just like the presence of a parachute does not affect the flight plan). All gas planning should be done without considering the backup cylinder. Otherwise, it really isn't a backup...

Correct me if I have misunderstood your point...

Mike

 

[scarefaceDM]

No. the redundant gas is not part of your Primary gas management. Yes you got my point..I should have stated that right off. My bad. But your redundant gas should be part of your dive plan and considered for both you and your buddy for a bail out if one should need it. So think of it as a secondary gas management system. Part of the bail out plan.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

To answer the whole issue....I want to do some ice diving but I feel I need a redundant for this purpose. Therefore that is the reason for my inquiries.

I agree with the others, ice diving is a completely different ball game.

Overhead, disorientation and environmental stress all form a perfect storm to kill yourself. As valuable as internet advice can sometimes be, you need training, specific gear AND a good team, not just a pony to do it safely.

 

[merxlin]

Since you are working with an instructor, I would ask them what they recommend, or require. All of our opinions are secondary to the instructors (unless they tell you no redundancy is needed ) You don't want to show up and find out you need other gear to satisfy their requirements.

 

[Teamcasa]

...that a 19 is not adequate gas for a 100 foot bail out....

There is a huge difference between bailing out and making a normal ascent with safety/deco stops, when using a pony.

I'm sure most recreational divers, diving a non-deco dive would be able to safely ascend, make a 3min safety stop when relying on a 19cf pony, (provided they were not in full panic mode). However, throw in a deco stops, deeper depths and the 19 simply fails to provide enough gas.

 

[doctormike]

No. the redundant gas is not part of your Primary gas management. Yes you got my point..I should have stated that right off. My bad. But your redundant gas should be part of your dive plan and considered for both you and your buddy for a bail out if one should need it. So think of it as a secondary gas management system. Part of the bail out plan.

Right, I see... I guess it is just a matter of semantics. The pony is part of the bailout plan, not the dive plan.

 

[scarefaceDM]

A redundant Gas is your emergency bail out plan. If you do bring one, then it should be considered as part of the dive plan. You plan on bringing it for the "incase"..so then you need to plan for it. (Know how much gas is needed for X depth etc and if two will breathe from it, do you have enough for your buddy etc )

A dive plan is the whole dive - from when you get to the dive site, to what you will bring on the dive, to the in-water dive, to the in-water emergencies, to the exit plan and the actions need to be taken in the event of an emergency. ( having a plan for this is part of the dive plan),

So in my opinion, a dive plan is the whole dive day - from start to finish and all that happens inbetween. And to the happy ending with a few cold beers afterwards.

Safe dives

Right, I see... I guess it is just a matter of semantics. The pony is part of the bailout plan, not the dive plan.

 

[doctormike]

A redundant Gas is your emergency bail out plan. If you do bring one, then it should be considered as part of the dive plan. You plan on brinning it for the "incase"..so then you need to plan for it. (Know how much gas is needed for X depth etc and if two will breathe from it, do you have enough for your buddy etc )

A dive plan is the whole dive - from when you get to the dive site, to what you will bring on the dive, to the in-water dive, to the in-water emergencies, to the exit plan and the actions need to be taken in the event of an emergency. ( having a plan for this is part of the dive plan),

So in my opinion, a dive plan is the whole dive day - from start to finish and all that happens inbetween. And to the happy ending with a few cold beers afterwards.

Safe dives

Yup, just semantics. I believe that we are saying the same thing.

What I am saying is that the pony should not (IMHO) ever enter into gas planning for the dive (e.g. the amount of gas that you bring based on the planned dive profile).

I agree that in calculating how big a redundant gas supply you need, the dive profile should be considered since a 19 CUF pony might be inadequate for certain depths, etc...

 

[AbyssalPlains]

I have been using a 19-cuft pony and it has become an integral part of my equipment. Personally, I would recommend against mounting a pony bottle, reason being that unless you can reach the valve at any point in any position and with great ease (all of which I highly doubt when a pony is mounted), you need to access the valve. If your pony reg is leaking even a tiny bit, you might lose the very air that you are taking for redundancy. A 19 cuft pony is very small to begin with. Some people will say it's too small and recommend a 40-cuft bottle instead. If you don't mind the size and if you're not an UW photographer, I'd say go with the 40-cuft. For me the reason of getting the 19 cuft was to have something that isn't bulky enough to interfere with my photography yet still gets me safely from 120 feet to the surface including a safety stop. The 19-cuft bottle does, I've tried it from 100 ft, incl. a nice long safety stop, and still had 1000 psi at the surface. Also, with a 19 cuft you can travel on a plane. A 40 cu ft would be way too big for that.

The other reason why you want to sling a pony is that you can unclip it and hand it to a buddy if needed. It's also much easier to monitor to air pressure when it's slung, as the tank valve will dangle right in front of your chest. I have a 5-inch high-pressure hose and a regular-length regulator hose, stowed with bicycle inner tube straps. I made the rigging from polypropylene cord (Nylon expands when wet), and it works just fine. All you need is a hose clamp incl. a protective nylon tubing that fits the circumference of your tank, polyprop or polyester line, two carabiners (stainless steel is better than brass but also more expensive) and a set of instructions, which you can get here:

FKD - Deco Bottle Rigging

The cylinder clamps and carabiners you get here:

D-Rings, Belt Slides, and Clamps - Dive Gear Express
I'm attaching a pic that shows you what it looks like when it's slung. It's out of the way, yet accessible at any time.

Good luck!

 

[FritzCat66]

Like AbyssalPlains, a pony is nowadays just part of my standard rig, whether doing a 90' reef or a 12' sharktooth dive. However, I prefer backmount on the cam band (i.e. pony not attached to primary cylinder). A couple of vendors have brackets that make this easy, mine is from Innovative Scuba.

Try your pony mounted several different ways, in all the configurations you can think of. I'm glad I did. They all have plusses and minuses. Ultimately, a pony is just about the most ideosyncratic piece of dive gear, so just run with that and make it fit YOU. Then dive with it all the time and PRACTICE deploying it until it's second nature, so you won't even have to think about it if you ever really need it.