WOW big changes to PADI DM for July 2011

[Belce]

John I think I thanked you for your post.

I would never be concerned about a DM taking me to court because he was found liable for something acting as a DM I certified them for. I would be more concerned about the agency that granted me permission to signoff on that DM's certification if the person indicated that they acted incorrectly because thay had never been trained correctly. I would also be concerned about the insurance agency that covered the liabilty as well.

 

[String]

SMB/DSMB use has only become more common over the past 5 years or so. For example, in 2000 I didn't see anyone use it in the Red Sea. But about 4 years ago in Palau & Australia, they were quite common.

Been around several decades in temperate waters. You can get away without in benign conditions but not everywhere.

We're talking about so-called "professional" divers here. They should be able to use one.

 

[String]

Has this ever happened, even once?

Like all of the "you must do this or someone will sue" excuses, i seriously doubt it.

Its often trotted out about all manner of things in diving and not but in reality people cant name a single case related. It comes 2nd to "health and safety" in the table of "pathetic excuses and lies to hide behind when feeling lazy".

 

[Divemastersintraining]

Well it's started we now have a mish mash of students here both doing the new and old courses simultaneously! Cool to see lotsa teamwork between the DMT’s and staff trying to get the right balance to make the new program better than ever! Can’t wait to see where it leads with such a big group of DMTs!

 

[Ste Wart]

Has this ever happened, even once?

It's hard to sue DM for standards violation because they have to be doing a PADI program in order to violate those standards. So in the normal run of things a DM is only guiding dives. PADI does have such a thing as Discover Local Diving, but I have yet to visit a Dive Center that actually offers this, therefore most of the time a DM cannot violate standards.
Then there is the problem, and I haven't checked this properly, but I don't believe there is a law which says to lead a dive you must be a DM. I know the odd country has regulations on this, e.g Egypt, Malta. But in general an Open Water could in theory lead a dive.

The new course looks a lot more comprehensive IMHO. However call me a cynic (most do) but I'd bet that more than a few places (Koh Tao we are looking at you here!!!) who will not adhere to the 40 dive mark. And this is simply because of the way the dive industry is; cut-throat. If a customer walks in and wants to the DM course yet has only 25 dives and as manager you know very well that the shop next to him is going to be ok with that, will that shop manager say 'no, you need 40 dives'?
I like the fact that the 'Equipment Exchange' is now part of the stamina skills. Maybe now instructors will realise that this exercise is meant to be conducted in Confined Water and is not an opportunity for instructors to bully their DMT's.

 

[Divemastersintraining]

we will be starting any DMT at 40 dives for sure with anyone with the new material. Not even a question.

 

[=C=]

Its being trialled here currently with a few DMTs.
Sadly still doesn't stop the issue of instructors signing up their mates without actually doing the course though!

I have the feeling this is a big issue but I've never actually had it confirmed (People who come to IDC never having done a skill circuit is a big hint) but its never discussed. How many know someone who took this path?

On another note, I think the e-learning would help with this no?


---never mind... read the entire thread----

 

[=C=]

Just noticed that finally they is some SMB/DSMB stuff. Its crazy that we're getting newly qualified instructors who have never used a DSMB or SMB at the moment.

Not seen the new materials but it does at least now give the ability to teach that formally. Id like to see both types made mandatory as exercises though

I pulled mine out at the IDC (during a rescue presentation) and a majority of the candidates hadn't seen a DSMB on a spool. It just wasn't part of their diving, that said they did have surface sausages with one way valves (like a tyre valve stem) that I had never seen...

 

[boulderjohn]

I pulled mine out at the IDC (during a rescue presentation) and a majority of the candidates hadn't seen a DSMB on a spool. It just wasn't part of their diving, that said they did have surface sausages with one way valves (like a tyre valve stem) that I had never seen...

Of all the places I have dived with commercial operators with DMs, I am having trouble thinking of a place outside of Cozumel where I have seen one used by a DM, so it is not surprising. My own use of it did not really start until I began technical diving training.

What follows is partly conjecture, but not totally.

I believe that the line between recreational diving and technical diving is becoming blurred as practices once considered to be part of technical diving become part of recreational diving. The use of a DSMB is an example. There are others.

I have had a number of discussions with PADI headquarters lately on similar topics, and the responses indicate that they still consider a number of topics to be part of the realm of technical diving and thus not suited to recreational diving practice and instruction. I think including the DSMB in DM instruction is an acknowledgment that in this case the transfer has been accomplished. It will be interesting to watch as other practices become accepted as well.

 

[=C=]

Of all the places I have dived with commercial operators with DMs, I am having trouble thinking of a place outside of Cozumel where I have seen one used by a DM, so it is not surprising. My own use of it did not really start until I began technical diving training.

What follows is partly conjecture, but not totally.

I believe that the line between recreational diving and technical diving is becoming blurred as practices once considered to be part of technical diving become part of recreational diving. The use of a DSMB is an example. There are others....

Kinda like the adoption of EANx?

Taking it logically I think DSMB could end up in SAR perhaps as an addition to the lift bag skill. Rescue maybe... The skill set related to marking a location of a missing diver or a search area... Maybe as a addition to the boat specialty, on more than one occasion I have had a live boat entry and then you shot a dsmb to signal pickup.