Jacket BCD vs. Backplate/Wing

[Doc Harry]

When I was going through my initial dive training (PADI OW), I was really irritated by the whole "jacket" thing. The dang thing was just so cluttered with all this junk hanging out everywhere. And when inflated on the surface, it squeezed the breath out of me.

What I really wanted at the time, but didn't realize it back then, was a nice, simple backplate setup with a simple harness. When I finally saw my first BP/W, it was true love at first sight.

It's not the configuration of the jacket that bothers me, it's all the clutter.

Oh, and by the way, my OP was just a simple question about a magzine article. I wasn't bashing jacket BCs or trying to convert anyone. But now, on post #141, I am bashing jacket BCs and trying convert.

 

[Crush]

It doesnt make one difference to the average vacation diver which they use.

+1.

For most vacation divers I think that the prime consideration should be if it packs well for travel.

In fact, I might suggest (tongue in cheek) that jacket-style BC's are superior to BP/w's for new divers. The bulkier the BC the better - the average vacation diver might not have good trim, so the added bulk of a totally decked-out BC will help to slow ascents and descents when the diver is vertical in the water, increasing safety and decreasing instances of DCS. Drift diving will similarly be easier - you will see more fish (albeit briefly) in less time that those darn, low-drag BP/w divers as the current will grab you more strongly and move you about with greater efficiency. Finally, you will present a larger target to an aircrew looking for you, and the bright colours will make you easier to spot than, say, someone with a black BP/w.

 

[Crush]

When I was going through my initial dive training (PADI OW), I was really irritated by the whole "jacket" thing. The dang thing was just so cluttered with all this junk hanging out everywhere. And when inflated on the surface, it squeezed the breath out of me.

What I really wanted at the time, but didn't realize it back then, was a nice, simple backplate setup with a simple harness. When I finally saw my first BP/W, it was true love at first sight.

It's not the configuration of the jacket that bothers me, it's all the clutter.

Oh, and by the way, my OP was just a simple question about a magzine article. I wasn't bashing jacket BCs or trying to convert anyone. But now, on post #141, I am bashing jacket BCs and trying convert.

DevonDiver gave a brilliant summary of this:

There is a 'trend' amongst novice divers to slowly transfer the contents of their local dive store onto their D-rings and into their pockets.

...

The so-called 'Christmas Tree Diver' mirrors the green rookie marine - carrying way too much gear and performing badly as a result.

 

[DevonDiver]

OK, so personally you wouldn't opt for the so called "hybrid". That I can deal with, then saying someone is stupid because they don't consider a BP/W is also your opinion?

Stupid is probably a harsh word. I just think that common sense dictates that a diver should be aware of the full range of options available to them.

For most people, spending $350-$900 dollars is quite an investment. Certainly, for most people, it would be an investment that warranted some decent research into the full range of available options.

I can remove the cumberbund from the Stiletto if I want, and may try that next. As for the weight, I can add the weight in the ditchable weight pockets on the back making the positive effect of the metal back plate and the need to have a lightweight back plate for different types of application for this tool.

Please... you don't need to justify your choices and preferences to me. I had no intention of denigrating your BCD choice.

I previously pointed out that there were simularities between a Zeagle Stiletto and a BP&W. My intention was to illustrate how some divers might justify that a Stiletto was 'good for beginners' etc... because it is a 'jacket' BCD, but then go to say that a BP&W wasn't 'good for beginners' or was only good for tech.

By considering your description of the Zeagle's features, you can see that there isn't much difference between the two types of BCD... which clarifies the misperceptions evident in certain viewpoints.

In the long run, in my opinion, I find the value of the features of my Stiletto equal to that of a BP/W. And since this whole discussion is based on opinion, We have reached a stalemate. Which is where the majority of BP/W discussions, like the political discussions in the Pub usually end. But I guess that's what these discussions are for. You aren't going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours, stalemate.

Why are you leaping to the conclusion that anyone is "trying to change your mind"?

Nobody that I can see...and certainly not me... was criticising your choice of BCD.

There are no conspiracies here....and I definately won't earn any commission from your choice of diving apparatus...

 

[seaducer]

Another observation I have noticed over my few years on SB is that many BP/W users seem very passionate/aggressive about trying to convert others to using a BP/W while those that use either a Jacket or BI (and I know a BP/W is a BI) BC seem to be more "live and let live" about what BC folks use. Why do I say this? Simple. Check out most of the threads where a diver asks about what type of BC they should get and watch the responses. If a diver asks specifically a question like this about jacket bc's:

"I'm looking at getting my first set of gear and I'm trying to decide between Brand X BC vs Brand Y BC. Which would you go with?"

Within the first 3 or 4 posts, sometimes even the first post, someone will post and say something to this effect, "Let me save you the trouble of making a mistake by buying either of those. What you want is a BP/W. If you buy what you are looking at, you'll eventually sell it on e-bay and move up to a BP/W. Let me keep you from making the mistake I made and wasting your money."

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've seen that type of response! The thread will usually just turn into a "Why you don't want that and why you do want what I'm telling you." It becomes hard to even give the person the advice they were looking for because they get bombarded with getting a BP/W.

Now what happens when it's the other way. What happens when a person says this.

"I'm looking at getting a BP/W and can't decide between a Dive Rite vs this vs that. What do you guys think?"

You'll practically never, if ever, see the Jacket or BI users come on and tell the person they shouldn't buy a BP/W. They leave the discussion of which BP/W to buy to those who care or to those who have good input about BP/W's. They don't try and hijack the thread and turn it into why a Jacket/BI BC is better.

But the BP/W users just can't seem to be able to help themselves. They are overpowered by some force that makes them go all out to convert the poor misguided Jacket user who just doesn't know any better.

There is no question there is a lot going on in these threads. I will say, if someone begins a thread with a specific choice, then people whose opinions are outside of that choice should stay out of the conversation. It is just bad manners.

However, there are other threads where it is obvious that the op is looking at jacket bcd's because they are not aware that there are other choices, and so some are compelled, in a discussion board, to state their opinions.

I do believe that there is an element, and it is present here in this thread as well, that feels that every person who sings the praises of a bp/w is concurrently slamming jacket bc's and the people who use them.

If someone uses a derogatory term, like poodle jacket, and it is not obvious to you that they are joking, call that person out for that comment, preferably in a PM.

If I say that my bp/w provides a superior experience over the jackets I have used, that is not putting down the jacket users, so don't take it that way and then start a huge beef.

There are two sides to these threads, both are equal in their contributions. And this detracts from the meat of the topic.

 

[LakeCountyDiver]

+1.

For most vacation divers I think that the prime consideration should be if it packs well for travel.

A BP/W packs pretty damn good to me and is much smaller then my Jacket.

In fact, I might suggest (tongue in cheek) that jacket-style BC's are superior to BP/w's for new divers. The bulkier the BC the better - the average vacation diver might not have good trim, so the added bulk of a totally decked-out BC will help to slow ascents and descents when the diver is vertical in the water, increasing safety and decreasing instances of DCS. Drift diving will similarly be easier - you will see more fish (albeit briefly) in less time that those darn, low-drag BP/w divers as the current will grab you more strongly and move you about with greater efficiency. Finally, you will present a larger target to an aircrew looking for you, and the bright colours will make you easier to spot than, say, someone with a black BP/w.

I usually dont call people on there opinions but are you serious about this whole post Please tell me you are joking. "totally decked-out BC will help to slow ascents" "Finally, you will present a larger target to an aircrew looking for you, and the bright colours will make you easier to spot than, say, someone with a black BP/w."

 

[BDSC]

If I say that my bp/w provides a superior experience over the jackets I have used, that is not putting down the jacket users, so don't take it that way and then start a huge beef.

I totally agree with you and I don't think a person saying that they prefer one style over the other is putting the other style down at all. But a lot of people just don't seem to be able to leave it at that. They have to tell you that you'll be "making a mistake" by buying one over the other. And they like to say that when you become "more advanced" in your diving you're going to want to switch.

I go to the caribbean a lot for diving. I have yet to see a DM in a BP/W. Most of the time they are in some old beat-up jacket that looks like it's seen it's best days years ago. Those folks do so many dives they don't even log them anymore. Most of the ones I've seen have pretty much perfect buoyancy, trim, and will come back from an hour long dive with half a tank left. I don't know that you can get much more "advanced" than those folks in thay type of diving.

So I asked one of the DM's last year in Roatan why didn't he get him a new BC and I specifically asked him if he ever thought about getting a BP/W. His answer, "You've seen me in the water this week. Is there anything about my diving that a new BC would improve upon?" I laughed and said, "Nope. You're about as good as I've ever seen anywhere."

I guess I've just never understood the mentality of folks who claim that when you're ready to "advance in your diving" you'll be drawn to a BP/W.

 

[Crush]

I usually dont call people on there opinions but are you serious about this whole post Please tell me you are joking.

I have re-posted the offending comments, below, with some emphasis to help you draw a conclusion.

In fact, I might suggest (tongue in cheek) that jacket-style BC's are superior to BP/w's for new divers. The bulkier the BC the better - the average vacation diver might not have good trim, so the added bulk of a totally decked-out BC will help to slow ascents and descents when the diver is vertical in the water, increasing safety and decreasing instances of DCS. Drift diving will similarly be easier - you will see more fish (albeit briefly) in less time that those darn, low-drag BP/w divers as the current will grab you more strongly and move you about with greater efficiency. Finally, you will present a larger target to an aircrew looking for you, and the bright colours will make you easier to spot than, say, someone with a black BP/w.

 

[LakeCountyDiver]

I have re-posted the offending comments, below, with some emphasis to help you draw a conclusion.

Ok well that is why I asked about the "whole" post cause damn was that funny to read. It is sad but I am sure that there are nubies out there that might believe those sort of things.

Anyway thanks for the laugh.

 

[dmoore19]

So as I pointed out earlier this subject usually causes opinionated people to voice theirs. It is just like the politics in the pub. It is all opinion based. No sense in getting bent about it though. Carry on, I'm outta here.