Tipping

[k ellis]

one thing about tipping in general (Not just diving) I tend to tip well when its open tipping. What I resent is when you go on a cruise or to a restraunt and they automaticly bill you for a tip. When this happens I generaly go by the recommended guidelines (10 percent for good service or 15 for above and beyond) But when its open tipping I sometimes tip well over that if its out of this world service.

All though I know people are under paid and depend on tips to survive I never understood why they continue to call mandatory tips "Gratuities" Which means Based on your service this is how grateful I am. Why do they not call mandatory tips a service charge?

But to let all of the dive masters out there know. I do tip for great service and just want to let all of the boat captains and their dive masters and crew know that your service is appreciated even if some people arent polite enough to show it....

 

[RTBDiver]

Some valid points but you also need to remember that it is most often not the decision of the employee whether these things are included on a bill and is likely the policy set by the owner so why take it out on the server, DM, or other employee who has no control over such things? Its not like they can up and quit if they don't like the policy and skip down the road for another job. Also, while many people from around the world do tip, there are many that do not generally do so if they are not used to it at home

 

[k ellis]

I dont take it out on the server as I said I do tip the normal amount but I also try to research how to get around the mandatory charges. For example one pizza place here charges a mandatory 10 percent on any deliveries to the hospital I work at. So we alway order the food and have it delivered to the park across the street and have them call us. We do tip but its our decision to do so and not some sleeze ball who decides how grateful we are for us. Many restraunts say a party of 8 or more will be charged x amount so if I am buying for more then 8 I request to checks of 4 and then we again tip as necessary.

Sad day when people decide in advance how grateful their clients will be.

 

[salth2owannabe]

one thing about tipping in general (Not just diving) I tend to tip well when its open tipping. What I resent is when you go on a cruise or ....

Except - On a cruise you have the open option of altering your "suggested" tip or give nothing at all, it's your choice. It is not "mandatory" in way, shape, or form. The "suggested" tip is very low and will be charged to your credit card if you choose not to adjust it.
I would agree that I don't like mandatory gratuities either, but I've yet to see a cruise line where that was the case.

 

[rob@diveinutila.com]

Boy this thread got long given the subject!

Just my two cents worth from inside the dive industry...

(On soapbox) I hate everything about tipping!!! It’s an American habit supplementing employer’s payrolls...!

I know only a tiny handful of divers who are on a payroll.

Diving is a tipping industry. Much of the diving we love to do is based in 2nd or 3rd world countries. Even in the smartest hotels and resorts this means that almost all the staff are on minimum wage for that country. In Honduras this is around $290 per month. My girlfriend used be the head manager for a smart and busy tourist hotel in Honduras, with all the usual responsibilities you expect a job like that to entail. She got paid minimum wage. So you can imagine what the cleaners received. A lot of workers get a fraction of minimum wage - I know local people who work but still can only afford electricity half of the month.

I was staying at one of the top hotels in Honduras with my folks last year. They charged me $1,200+ for 3 nights with two day time activities. I made a point of privately asking the staff what they were paid (waiters, kitchen staff, guides, maids, etc). The answer was always minimum wage.

So turning to dive staff... Divemasters are in general paid very poorly. Almost anywhere in the world a DM would be in a very good DM job if they can save enough money to fly home at the end of the season. Mostly a DM wage doesn't even pay enough to get by. Divers rely on a good DM for a safe time and good dive and enjoyment of their vacation. A DM pay of around $20 a day is not uncommon (and they don't work every day). I know DMs who earn on average around $10 per day or less. In Roatan you can't buy a burger in a West End bar for that. Please tip them what you can afford, DMs often rely on tips to be able to return home at the end of the season, to pay rent, to eat, so please don't be mean.

Instructors are paid a little better but no one is getting rich doing this. It is done because we love it not because we make money. And once again you put your health & safety as well as the quality of your vacation experience in the hands of these people. A requisite tip should not be a problem.

When it comes to tipping restaurant staff, resort staff, etc by all means use the resort collective tip jar or however they do it but be aware that in many places not all staff benefit from this. For example, In restaurants it is not unusual for the kitchen staff to be left out or some other tip dividing policy that you would not be happy with. If you want to tip someone for good work do it directly to them.

 

[ev780]

I will also jump on the soapbox!!!!!

........ Had to find the Captain, the DM, put money in the jar at shop, and find individuals that helped specifically with our group doing the shore dives. I think it was a little crazy when we returned from our dive watching people trying to find certain people to tip them.

How do you divide the tip between the DM and the Captain - evenly, DM more, Captain more? These were all questions we debated.....

All I can say is travel with a pocket of $1 and $5 for the constant tipping during your travel to and from.

For the DM and Captain we tipped $120 (each of us) and can't remember exactly how this was divided, I think the DM got a little more. A couple of the shore guys who took our shore divers back and forth all week got I think $40-$50 each from each of our shore divers. We threw a wad of money in the jar.

Snagel

If it's that hard then to hell with it. If there is a need for this corporate welfare (tipping) then the employees can make it easy on us. Otherwise not my problem.

Salth, I just don't like Value Added Tipping. The cruise industry is infamous for paying employees little in what amounts to imprisoned servitude and I don't like following their protocols. That tip amount may well be adjustable, but I don't really trust the boats to give all of the money to the employees.

Your suggestion does have merit I guess, but I like to tip the service people directly. One resort owner in the Bay I know likes the pooled tip to be split among others like the gardener, etc. but that's not what the tipping is for to me. Others in Cozumel advertise that their prices include tips, but I think they're just trying to maximize income at the expense of the workers and do tip. The whole tipping thing has gotten out of hand I guess, but I'm sticking to the middle ground I think.

I think it is a much beter concept. Basically just add it to the bill and let me know what the total cost is. Much more predictable. Otherwise everyone has their damn hand out all over the place.

(On soapbox) I hate everything about tipping!!! It’s an American habit supplementing employer’s payrolls...! I hate it with a passion and wish it was included with the meal, taxi fare, haircut, or Starbucks...!

We as a country (USA) are accustom to tipping while other countries do not... Europeans do not tip and if the crew at CCV or elsewhere got stiffed by a European group then take it up with the employer and require no tipping and have the AI and actual "AI"...! (Off soapbox)

Here Here!!!!!!!!!

Boy this thread got long given the subject!

Just my two cents worth from inside the dive industry...



I know only a tiny handful of divers who are on a payroll.

Diving is a tipping industry. Much of the diving we love to do is based in 2nd or 3rd world countries. Even in the smartest hotels and resorts this means that almost all the staff are on minimum wage for that country. In Honduras this is around $290 per month. My girlfriend used be the head manager for a smart and busy tourist hotel in Honduras, with all the usual responsibilities you expect a job like that to entail. She got paid minimum wage. So you can imagine what the cleaners received. A lot of workers get a fraction of minimum wage - I know local people who work but still can only afford electricity half of the month.

I was staying at one of the top hotels in Honduras with my folks last year. They charged me $1,200+ for 3 nights with two day time activities. I made a point of privately asking the staff what they were paid (waiters, kitchen staff, guides, maids, etc). The answer was always minimum wage.

So turning to dive staff... Divemasters are in general paid very poorly. Almost anywhere in the world a DM would be in a very good DM job if they can save enough money to fly home at the end of the season. Mostly a DM wage doesn't even pay enough to get by. Divers rely on a good DM for a safe time and good dive and enjoyment of their vacation. A DM pay of around $20 a day is not uncommon (and they don't work every day). I know DMs who earn on average around $10 per day or less. In Roatan you can't buy a burger in a West End bar for that. Please tip them what you can afford, DMs often rely on tips to be able to return home at the end of the season, to pay rent, to eat, so please don't be mean.

Instructors are paid a little better but no one is getting rich doing this. It is done because we love it not because we make money. And once again you put your health & safety as well as the quality of your vacation experience in the hands of these people. A requisite tip should not be a problem.

When it comes to tipping restaurant staff, resort staff, etc by all means use the resort collective tip jar or however they do it but be aware that in many places not all staff benefit from this. For example, In restaurants it is not unusual for the kitchen staff to be left out or some other tip dividing policy that you would not be happy with. If you want to tip someone for good work do it directly to them.

Sorry that dog don't hunt!!! Tipping is for good service, not to supplement corporate payrolls. Sorry that the market does not reward divemasters and instructors. It's simple supply and demand. There are too many of you.

All that morning crankiness aside, I spent a fair ampount of my life making a living in the service industry and I do tip well. Does not mean I have to like it.

 

[k ellis]

everyone has their damn hand out all over the place.

You know I went to Cozumel and that was exactly how it was there. I did not mind tipping the dive masters but dang. When I reserved the trip with a gal at the computer she had a tip jar. I walked over to the food bar at the hotel and they had a tip jar. I then went to the bar to get a soda with my food and they had a tip jar. When I went to the gift shop they had a tip jar. When I pulled into the hotel the security officer had his hand out. You go into town and people give you directions and hold their hand out.

Im all for tipping but geesh when it cost a grand a day on even 5 dollar tips its a little much. I know they have a hard time making a living but when they expect so much gratuities people start avoiding the place like the plague then they should realize some thing is wrong.

 

[k ellis]

So turning to dive staff... Divemasters are in general paid very poorly. Almost anywhere in the world a DM would be in a very good DM job if they can save enough money to fly home at the end of the season. Mostly a DM wage doesn't even pay enough to get by. Divers rely on a good DM for a safe time and good dive and enjoyment of their vacation. A DM pay of around $20 a day is not uncommon (and they don't work every day). I know DMs who earn on average around $10 per day or less. In Roatan you can't buy a burger in a West End bar for that. Please tip them what you can afford, DMs often rely on tips to be able to return home at the end of the season, to pay rent, to eat, so please don't be mean.

Instructors are paid a little better but no one is getting rich doing this. It is done because we love it not because we make money. And once again you put your health & safety as well as the quality of your vacation experience in the hands of these people. A requisite tip should not be a problem.

When it comes to tipping restaurant staff, resort staff, etc by all means use the resort collective tip jar or however they do it but be aware that in many places not all staff benefit from this. For example, In restaurants it is not unusual for the kitchen staff to be left out or some other tip dividing policy that you would not be happy with. If you want to tip someone for good work do it directly to them.

Im sorry but I agree with the previous poster. Dont tip just because its customary. Tip because the service was great and worth the tip. I have been to restraunts where I had to literaly get up and walk to the fountains to get my own drink and all the while the waitress was serving other tables. Now if I had to get up and get my own service why would she deserve a tip? That does not encourage good service if your going to get a tip anyway!

Ive been to restraunts where just 2 of us ate and I have given a 20 dollar tip just because they actually earned it.

Your right also in that no one does this because we get rich we do it because we love it. thats a sacrifice you make. Even in law enforcement I get grossly under paid yet I know I have the option to walk away and get a better paying job. Its not the money its the joy of the job. Unfortunately though we dont get nor can we accept tips.

I just cant stand it when people pitty people into giving a tip when they should be giving out of this world service to earn it. I do know sometimes when they do work their tales off they dont get a tip and those are the ones I really feel for.

 

[RTBDiver]

I dont take it out on the server as I said I do tip the normal amount

So you may have tipped more but because of a managers decision you tip less, that seems like your taking it out on the ones actually taking care of you. As i mentioned previously, its not like you can expect people with a job in a place of 50% or so unemployment to up and quit because they don't like the managers or owners policy.

For example one pizza place here charges a mandatory 10 percent on any deliveries to the hospital I work at. So we alway order the food and have it delivered to the park across the street and have them call us. We do tip but its our decision to do so and not some sleeze ball who decides how grateful we are for us

So you take it out on the driver for what again is likely a management decision. do you leave a tip with the people at the park across the street? Have you met the delivery driver that you are calling a sleeze ball?
.

Many restraunts say a party of 8 or more will be charged x amount so if I am buying for more then 8 I request to checks of 4 and then we again tip as necessary.

But you would probably also be the first then to complain if they brought four meals at one time and the four others ten minutes later or if they seated you at different tables. You make it seem as if the only thing different is calculation the bill and not all that goes into preparing for large groups and the extra time and effort needed by the rest of the staff to work to have everything go smooth. Go ahead, take it out on the workers, that'll show the owners who is boss when they add up the reciepts at the end of the night, Oh no, wait, you still pay full price for the meal so the owner or manager responsible for policy still makes all their money, its just the servers, cooks, and others who lose.

 

[RTBDiver]

I do know sometimes when they do work their tales off they dont get a tip and those are the ones I really feel for.

Or when they work their tails off and deserve a great tip but the owner may have a policy to include it in the bill so you will not tip great

When this happens I generaly go by the recommended guidelines (10 percent for good service or 15 for above and beyond) But when its open tipping I sometimes tip well over that if its out of this world service.