How do you know when you're too "green" to dive without an instructor or DM?

[annlaur]

I've logged about 80 dives so far, and all have been led by professionals. Granted, most times I didn't have a choice (mandatory guided dives), but even if I had, I would have hired a professional. As a matter of fact, I even hire private DMs at the beginning of every dive trip and whenever I try something new (drift diving, UW photography&#8230

I am a vacation diver, not a strong swimmer, only snorkeled twice before taking up diving at 33 years old, am sometimes anxious in the water. I also have poor visual memory, so don't trust myself much as far as navigation goes.

Sure, if I lived close to some shallow water and had local dive buddies, I could practice on a regular basis and dive without a pro. To be honest, provided I had more experience and redundant equipment, I would just love to do solo dives on very shallow reefs so I could just spend 10 minutes looking at one creature without feeling like I'm slowing down everyone else.

While I admire/envy all of the very experienced/hardcore divers out there and am all for making sure OW students receive proper basic instruction, I'm also glad that the agencies have made it easy for most people to enjoy the underwater world.

My Padi instructor was great, and I'm sure I could have dove the sites we trained at without him. Or any other shallow reef with great vis and little current.
But I went home and didn't dive for a year and on my next trip to a different location, I had forgotten everything, did a trust-me dive and had a close call which has shaken my self-confidence. My fault, not my instructor's. He'd warned me about the necessity to keep on diving/learning/doing refreshers, but I had such great memories of my OW certification that I didn't realize I had forgotten most of my training until I was underwater.

No matter how great a 5 day course is, it is not enough to build "muscle memory" and have the skills down on the long term.
And if I had been offered a longer course right from the start, I probably wouldn't have taken it, because that would have been quite an investment of time (and money) to make on a sport that, for all I knew, I might not even like.

Maybe I'm being oversensitive as it's been a long day for me in snowy Paris, but I find some of the posts written in this thread condescending towards those of us who choose to hire professionals.

Going on guided dives and/or hiring a private DM allows me to avoid an instabuddy, have a thorough briefing about the site and conditions, free my mind of navigation (no, I don't expect them to watch my gauges or my depth, but I do expect them to know where the mooring/exit point is, they know the site, I don't), see some critters I would have missed, have the peace of mind of knowing someone experienced is close by should the $… hit the fan (I don't expect them to babysit me, but their mere presence makes me feel safer and gives me self-confidence) or simply have a "model" to watch and learn from.
Hiring a private DM when in Dahab, Egypt, and in Cozumel, was also a wonderful way to spend the surface interval, both to get tips and advice about diving and to talk about the local way of life.

So, to answer Brianna's question, I know I'm too green to dive without a dive professional basically because I can't dive on a regular basis and my skills get rusty in between trips.

 

[aquaregia]

Whenever I'm in a new area I like to have a local with me. This was a DM for two of my dives (BVIs) because I had no local friends .

My DM on a dive I did in Key West was switching over tanks for the other passengers ("you're on vacation"), but wasn't surprised when I said that I'd rather do mine myself. I once let one of my instructors swap my tanks (it made sense due to space constraints) and he hooked up my regs backwards, so I don't really trust anyone anymore.

 

[aquaregia]

So, to answer Brianna's question, I know I'm too green to dive without a dive professional basically because I can't dive on a regular basis and my skills get rusty in between trips.

"Thanks"

 

[Thalassamania]

The entry level qualifications say you're competent and safe to dive without one as soon as you pass the course in conditions equal to or better than training. (other than scuba diver which isn't a real qualification anyway).

If you AREN'T capable of doing that then the instructor should not have signed you up as qualified as you've failed to reach the requirements.

Remember lots of places in the world dont have in-water guides to nanny people.

You need to define "Competent." I think that any competent definition of the word puts the lie to the idea that entry level qualifications that says that, "you're competent and safe to dive without one as soon as you pass the course in conditions equal to or better than training," is worth the plastic that it is printed on, and most new divers seem to get this. I define "Competent" in some other posts as:

Competent: The diver now has a good working knowledge of diving, as well as some background knowledge of diving, and as a result can deal with knowledge in context. Recognition of relevance is now present. Actions are seen, at least partly, in terms of longer-term goals. The diver is able to cope with simple multiple, simultaneous, and competing inputs. The diver sees actions (at least partially) in terms of longer-term goals. The diver performs best with standardized and routine procedures, but is able to achieve most tasks using his or her own judgment and can also engage in conscious and deliberate planning. Skills are fit for the purpose intended, though they may lack refinement.
​

I'd suggest that most diver come out of an entry level call at what I call "Novice" and that they really are not ready to dive with a buddy who is similarly qualified, "in conditions equal to or better than training," until the are well into the level that I describe as "Beginner":

Beginner: The diver has developed a working knowledge of key aspects of tasks and appreciates that complex diving situations exist. Since situational awareness is limited, all attributes and aspects tend to be treated separately and given equal importance. Though the diver begins to use global characteristics of situations that are recognized from limited prior experience, problems are primarily solved by using rote guidelines for action that are based on situational attributes. The diver is starting to make rudimentary attempts to decide on appropriate actions in context, but is limited to applying actions as a series of steps, and thus can not be expected to successfully resolve complex situations. Though supervision is needed for the accomplishment of the overall task, straightforward tasks likely to be completed to an acceptable standard and the beginner is able to achieve some steps using his or her own judgment.​

 

[Trace Malinowski]

While I admire/envy all of the very experienced/hardcore divers out there and am all for making sure OW students receive proper basic instruction, I'm also glad that the agencies have made it easy for most people to enjoy the underwater world.

I didn't find training difficult. Oh, sure, there were a couple classes that had me disappointed in my performance and visualizing how to improve between classes that were spaced a week apart, but there seems to be an unwarranted perception of how "hard" or "difficult" higher standards of diver training really are since fewer and fewer divers get to experience how much fun and rewarding it is to attain skills.

Nothing rewarding is easy. Heck, I want things easy myself. When anything is perceived to be hard, it creates feelings of concern, focus, stress, etc. When we hear something is easy, we tend to relax. But, I'd bet that I could tell a new student that my toughest possible course was "easy" and as long as I provided enough time in the course to condition muscles, allow the brain to absorb information, and use well thought out building blocks for skill development (Oh, wait! That sounds like my first scuba course!) the student would perceive the class as being mostly easy with a few challenging moments.

How many times have we heard instructors say things like:

"We'll just bang these out."

"Don't worry about how well you do, we just need to say we did these for standards purposes."

"Okay, that wasn't so good, but you get the idea, Okay, moving on ..."

Such sentences often accompany classes that are too quick and lack the time required to attain the level of comfort that a student needs to feel competent. What we need and what students need is more instructors saying:

"That was really good! Let's do it again!"

"Even better, let's do it again."

"Okay, do it again, but this time we are going to add ..."

"There, you go! Good job! Now, that wasn't so hard, was it?"

Today, when someone says, "Back in the dark ages when diving was hard and was run by macho sexist racist misogynist elitists ..." we must wonder was that person there or is that just hearsay? "Hard" and "easy" are just perceptions and those words influence how we feel about something we have yet to experience.

 

[Kingpatzer]

The flip side of that Trace, is that plenty of divers would never be in the water if they were still being required to commit to weeks of training.

Short courses are time constrained, but they've also led to many more people enjoying diving than would otherwise. Heck, my wife and I are in that camp. We started out as vacation divers, but after the very first "let's try this and see what it's like" dive trip, we were hooked.

 

[briannaunderwater]

Well, actually, cowboy was many years and pounds ago. Some poor horse would look at me now and quiver in fear at the thought of me on it's back. It's "Captain" now.

No, actually, I don't want my students reading about when they are "too green to dive without an instructor or DM". Your premise (or at least the title of this thread) is that divers may come out of a scuba instructional course without the requisite skills to plan and execute a dive in conditions similar to the conditions in which they were certified. . . . . I think I'll reserve my apologies for when I see the finished product.

Why on earth would you apologize for stimulating valid discussion? May I quote you? I'd especially like to include your message to students to go back to teachers and demand better education. I have been both kinds of DM. And I agree with you . . . OW certs should qualify one to dive in the conditions one was trained under. Sadly, I just hear nightmares all the time! Today, my boss at work told me how her instructor skipped over several of the course requirements (like the swim test!) and just checked them off of the list. I'm sure the instructor was in another country (I think she might have said Mexico), so she will probably not have the opportunity to get a tune-up or a followup from this instructor. Although I agree that she should be able to go diving on her own, I am scared that she will! She's terrified of diving. She says she's afraid when her mask fills with water. And I have no idea if she can swim. I pray to the powers that be that she has the good judgment to get more training before considering striking out on her own.

I promise to represent your viewpoint fairly. I hope you'll allow me to include it.

Cheers,
Brianna

 

[briannaunderwater]

Comfort Factor #1: In-water training creates comfort with equipment and confidence . . . .

In my experience, I was diving solo as a 15 year-old kid immediately after I received my full OW certification.
In Summary: A well trained, physically fit, and intelligent diver with a little guts and some common sense should be capable of diving without an instructor from the start. Any deficiencies in training, theory, fitness, courage, common sense, positive attitude, or parallel experiences should be red flags to hold back on going without a dive pro are trustworthy buddy.

Wow. I think you should write this article. You really bring up some salient points. Yeah, courage. What if someone is just too bloody scared to dive without a guide? A lot of food for thought here. May I quote you? If so, would you be so kind as to send me your full name and contact information (to briannapstevens@yahoo.com). If you could reference your scuba board name that would help, too!

many thanks for your great observations and eloquent explanation.

Cheers,
Brianna

 

[briannaunderwater]

Isn't that when you remember not to wear your mask on your forehead?

That works for me! How about when you start to carry o-rings in your glove compartment all the time, "just in case?"

 

[briannaunderwater]

That depends on whether you want to talk about how things should be or how they are.

But until we do that ... let's deal with reality ...

Ignoring the deficiencies in current dive training is like pretending that you can cut the teen pregnancy rate by telling the kids to "just say no".

You're only ever going to get there by talking about it ... why don't you wait till the lady's article comes out before you decide it's all wrong ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thank you. That's pretty much where it's coming from. And, yeah, give me a chance, man! I'm trying to help people, not tell them they can't dive on their own. If they do dive on their own, I want to help them be sure they're making the right decision and give them tips on what to do to ensure extra safety.