bp/w - jacket - back inflation ???

[raskous]

Hey guys

This has probably been asked before, though i couldn't find a simple enough post for me to really understand it.

But basically what's the difference between a jacket BCD, a BP/W set, and a back inflation bcd ?

The only one i've tried and seen in 25 dives so far is the jacket bcd, i mean i was never given a choice when doing dive trips, it's always jacket bcd, same for DMs and instructors they always have jackets. (dived in Philippines and Australia)

So i was just wondering, what's all the fuss about BP/W, people here seem to like it a lot compared to jackets...

I was just being curious, i'm not trying to start another which one is better thread...

But anyway, compared to a jacket bcd, what would be the biggest differences/advantages with a BP/W ? the prices seem to be way higher for BP/W so i guess there's a reason, also from what i've read here, the BC is not the only thing to buy, you also need a metal plate and some other stuff...

Or am i getting it all wrong?

One last thing, i've noticed the sticky post in that section about buoyancy calculator... is that something just for BP/W or same for a jacket?

Anyway i'm sure you guys can enlighten me, and i thank you for that

Cheers

 

[BDSC]

i'm not trying to start another which one is better thread...

That is pretty much unavoidable.

 

[fjpatrum]

I posted recently my impressions (as a newb) of the pros and cons of both jackets and bp/w setups. Here is a link:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...s-versus-vests-jackets-newbs-perspective.html

The biggest difference for me was the "freedom of movement" I felt with a bp/w and the way I can get an exact fit. I'm a tough fit for a jacket BC and when diving in cold water I need to really cinch down the waist cumberbund in order to keep them from riding up on me. This makes me feel very constricted and hurts my ribs after a while. In a BP/W I didn't have that "encumbered" feeling and had much more range of motion with the reduced amount of material around my torso.

Cons of the BP/W is that any sort of "integrated weight system" is invariably an "add on" or is part of a very expensive system. All back inflate style BCs, whether plates or not, make some people feel uncomfortable on the surface. I didn't see that as a problem and actually just floated on the one I dived like it was a small raft. Other people do a "face-plant" and don't like it.

I haven't found BP/Ws to be significantly more or less expensive than jacket BCs. I think the ones I've looked at have been very comparable in price. That may be different for folks outside the US, though.

 

[TSandM]

Jacket BCs have an air bladder that wraps around the front of the diver. Back inflate BCs put all the bladder volume behind the diver. A jacket BC is likely to float the diver bolt upright at the surface, because of the air ringing the torso, but some people do not like the feeling of compression around them that occurs with that. Underwater, there should never be that much gas in the bladder, so, with the diver in a horizontal swimming position, the front of the BC should be empty.

Back inflates leave the front of the diver less cluttered, in general, because you don't have to have the large flaps of bladder pulled across you. But the vest portion of the BC can be small or large, and have pockets or a variety of straps or attachment points on it, so the end result can be a clean chest or a crowded one, depending on design.

Most jacket and back-inflate BCs are one piece deals -- everything is assembled and cannot reasonably be taken apart. In contrast, a backplate and wing is a modular system, where the plate, harness and wing are bought and put together separately. This means you can pick and choose a bit on features you do and don't want, and also means a damaged portion (like bladder) can be easily replaced.

One of the big reasons cold water divers like backplates is that, by the nature of the plate itself, they move a bunch of weight up onto your back, making horizontal trim easier to establish. They also have no intrinsic padding, and thus reduce the total ballast you have to carry.

There are a lot of backplate enthusiasts here on SB, and what kind of BC is better is a frequent, and hotly debated topic. Suffice it to say that each type has its devotees, and the best course is to familiar yourself as best you can with all three types before you make a decision on what to buy. And read the "What did you buy that you regret?" thread

 

[lsorenson]

Raskous...

You should be able to find out what your looking for by spending more time using the search feature regarding this question...

Good thread on cost (I did not read all of it)
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/buoyancy-compensators-bcs-weight-systems/358126-back-plate-wings.html

Good thought on BP/W...
Why a backplate and wing - DIR Explorers

Check out this local forum regarding BP/W and BC's
Buoyancy Compensators (BC's) and Weight Systems - ScubaBoard

I went with the BP/W and I am glad I did but there is no reason to say this is the way you must go... Not sure if you can rent the BP/W in China or where ever you are at the moment but I would suggest to anyone starting out to rent both before buying if they can...!

I am a Chevy guy... Are you???

lee

 

[Crush]

TSandM, you are a saint for responding. Do you have a canned response to this question stored somewhere?

Jacket BCs have an air bladder that wraps around the front of the diver. Back inflate BCs put all the bladder volume behind the diver. A jacket BC is likely to float the diver bolt upright at the surface, because of the air ringing the torso, but some people do not like the feeling of compression around them that occurs with that. Underwater, there should never be that much gas in the bladder, so, with the diver in a horizontal swimming position, the front of the BC should be empty.

I don't like the feeling of being squeezed by a jacket.

Yes, this does/did happen to me. I may have been slightly over-weighted (OW cert dives), but please remember that if you are diving a thick wetsuit in cold water you may have to put a reasonable amount of gas into the lift device when you suit begins to compress significantly.

Most jacket and back-inflate BCs are one piece deals -- everything is assembled and cannot reasonably be taken apart. In contrast, a backplate and wing is a modular system, where the plate, harness and wing are bought and put together separately. This means you can pick and choose a bit on features you do and don't want, and also means a damaged portion (like bladder) can be easily replaced.

True. One good reason to look at a Zeagle (my model at least is modular).

There are a lot of backplate enthusiasts here on SB, and what kind of BC is better is a frequent, and hotly debated topic. Suffice it to say that each type has its devotees, and the best course is to familiar yourself as best you can with all three types before you make a decision on what to buy. And read the "What did you buy that you regret?" thread

Amen to that. We should organize an SB-sponsored "dive off" where champions of the different BC styles duke it out to decide this matter for once and for all.

 

[DiverLaura]

most of the zeagle's i've seen are all soft packs (yes, i know they have a bp) the down side of a soft pack is that you attach it to a hard tank and its you vs. the tank. you go to move a direction, and due to all the fabric and soft stuff between you and your tank, it takes a while for the tank to get the message. the translation of that feeling is 'slop' in the system. With a harness and backplate, you are attached to a metal backplate, its sized to fit your frame. then you bolt the hard tank to the hard backplate (with a wing in between of course). the end result is feeling like your gear/tank is an extension of your body. you want to turn you want to look at the surface, your tank does what you want. you don't feel like you are turning 'out' of it. you don't feel like you have to wait for it to catch up.

think race car steering vs. your grandparents old cadillac where you could turn the steering wheel 1/4 turn in a direction before you got any resulting turn in the wheels.

 

[lamont]

I don't like the feeling of being squeezed by a jacket.

Yes, this does/did happen to me. I may have been slightly over-weighted (OW cert dives), but please remember that if you are diving a thick wetsuit in cold water you may have to put a reasonable amount of gas into the lift device when you suit begins to compress significantly.

I had to rescue someone at the surface who couldn't breathe because of their jacket BC. In retrospect, the fastest way to solve the problem would have been to just release some play into their cummerbund so that their diaphragm could work, but i managed to get them to stop struggling and to tow them back in to shore.

With a BP/W I don't have to worry about what rescue technique to use when they're obstructing someone from breathing, which is a plus in my book...

 

[Crush]

I had to rescue someone at the surface who couldn't breathe because of their jacket BC. In retrospect, the fastest way to solve the problem would have been to just release some play into their cummerbund so that their diaphragm could work, but i managed to get them to stop struggling and to tow them back in to shore.

With a BP/W I don't have to worry about what rescue technique to use when they're obstructing someone from breathing, which is a plus in my book...

Funny that you say that, Lamont. I have had people tell me that a jacket BC can't squeeze you in that way, and that I must have been horribly overweighted (typically a comment made by warm water divers). As indicated above, I might have been overweighted (I simply don't recall), but only slightly so.

FWIW I used a Zeagle Scout rear-inflate BC for my first 60 or so dives, and now I am trying out a BP/w. I still haven't made up my mind which I like better.

 

[lamont]

Funny that you say that, Lamont. I have had people tell me that a jacket BC can't squeeze you in that way, and that I must have been horribly overweighted (typically a comment made by warm water divers). As indicated above, I might have been overweighted (I simply don't recall), but only slightly so.

Well, you can be overweighted in a BP/W and the only question is if your wing is big enough to float you or not. I guess you could argue that the situation with the jacket BC is due to improper use since you shouldn't be overweighted and shouldn't inflate it that much -- but in my mind that's a design flaw -- so if you do inflate it fully then you can't breathe, but if you adjust it so that you can fully inflate it, its too loose when you descend... That issue simply doesn't exist in BP/W (and i assume most back-inflates?).