How many dives before solo diving, part II

[Kingpatzer]

I used the first example to describe a solo dive in a pool, I just expanded it to a lake and different parameters. If they do it in a lake, it's not confined water.

That is simply incorrect. Confined water does not mean a swimming pool.

 

[DevonDiver]

I had a friend get up one morning and find her husband dead, halfway between the living room and bedroom. We're all going to die, some of us will be diving at the time.

That attitude sounds very "Inshahallah" to me....

We all die.... so lets forget about safe, responsible diving procedures. Whilst I am at it...gonna start smoking....maybe do some crack.....will drive home drunk tonight....at twice the speed limit....and play russian roulette with my .38..... and...and....and....

Please don't bring "we're all gonna die sometime" into the debate.... that just sounds like you've hit rock bottom with your objections... :cool2:

 

[Fish-R-Man]

I have to agree with both sides of this discussion. Devon and Bob make very valid points about the need to have a considerable amount of training and experience before attempting to dive solo. They come from the instructional side of diving. They see a large number of divers with a wide variety of skill levels. On the other hand I am sure that there are a significant number of divers that are very comfortable with their skill level and ability to access risk even if it doesn't meet their standards. I am not sure that if I were to take a two day, two dive solo class that it would lessen my risk level when I dive solo. Not saying that I couldn't learn something from it, but I believe I have enough experience to be able to limit my risk.

If I decided to take a solo course or any technical courses, instructors like these two are the ones that I would seek out to teach me. They are passionate about what they do and I am sure I would learn a great deal from either one. You know the old saying "The older I get, the better and smarter I was"

 

[DennisS]

That attitude sounds very "Inshahallah" to me....

We all die.... so lets forget about safe, responsible diving procedures. Whilst I am at it...gonna start smoking....maybe do some crack.....will drive home drunk tonight....at twice the speed limit....and play russian roulette with my .38..... and...and....and....

Please don't bring "we're all gonna die sometime" into the debate.... that just sounds like you've hit rock bottom with your objections... :cool2:

I'm not talking about doing crack or russian roulette underwater, I'm talking heart attacks, strokes etc. People are going to die on golf courses, high school football practice and marathons, doing things they like to do. These people all have people around and emergency services available withing minutes-they die- and having persons nearby doesn't make a difference in a lot of cases.

 

[Kingpatzer]

. . . and having persons nearby doesn't make a difference in a lot of cases.

So your conclusion is that we shouldn't care about when it does or can make a difference?

No one disputes that the end of life is being dead. Nor do we fail to recognize that sometimes no matter what the situation, a person is just going to end up dead because the heart attack, stroke, or whatever is simply too severe to recover from.

But it takes quite a bit of twisted logic to turn that fact into a justification to engage in risky activities without regard to one's level of experience and training.

 

[cmburch]

Less than 20 for SCUBA. But swim and skin dive a lot Hawaii, Chesapeake Bay, California, and Mexico.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

It isn't so much the mistakes that'll bite you when you're solo as it is the need for help with no one around, whether that need flows from a mistake or not. Certainly there are circumstances where a buddy is more a liability than an asset. Instructors frequently dive that way.
But there are "no-mistake" circumstances where solo is a death sentence, and it is this additional risk that solo divers must accept, or they are deluding themselves in their assessment of their safety.
In general, no matter how competent a diver you may be (Wes Skiles is a recent case-in-point), any debilitating event - stroke, heart attack, injury, entrapment, seizure, etc. - while solo diving results in drowning and death, while the same event with a buddy may or may not kill you, because a buddy may be able to transport you to life-saving assistance before you die... when you can not do it alone. To think "it'll never happen to me" is not an acceptable or accurate assessment of this additional risk to solo diving. It's just a part of solo diving and those of us who do choose to dive solo from time to time must consciously accept that risk every time we do it, or we're living in fantasy land.
Rick

Rick nailed it.

For the diving I do, the real danger is not OOA, entanglement, or the other dramatic and catastrophic failures most divers try to plan for....

Slipping and falling hard enough to knock myself out and drown on a rocky shorline entry or exit, or a sudden illness / physical incapacitation are much more likely.

And solo, either of these events will probably kill me.... with a buddy, I at least have a chance to survive.

So, when I solo, it is with the knowledge that no matter how careful I am, I am not as safe as I would be with a good buddy at my side.

But I still solo sometimes.....

Best wishes.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

Gentlemen.... play nicely please. A sense of humor and/or willingness to tolerate other people's perceptions is necessary for rational debate.

You may not like, or agree with, our points-of-view, but please don't turn this into a petty slanging match.

I'm trying to play nice, but 'others' (being nice again) are monopolizing the forum and trying to shove their points of view down everyone elses throat and then claiming superiority. It's very similar to non-DIR folks coming into the DIR forum and bashing what they do there. Genuine debate/discussion between solo divers, sure. But, that's not what this is anymore.

 

[Fish-R-Man]

Rick nailed it.

For the diving I do, the real danger is not OOA, entanglement, or the other dramatic and catastrophic failures most divers try to plan for....

Slipping and falling hard enough to knock myself out and drown on a rocky shorline entry or exit, or a sudden illness / physical incapacitation are much more likely.

And solo, either of these events will probably kill me.... with a buddy, I at least have a chance to survive.

So, when I solo, it is with the knowledge that no matter how careful I am, I am not as safe as I would be with a good buddy at my side.

But I still solo sometimes.....

Best wishes.

This is true in any activity that you might engage in. When I ski solo, I usually don't ski in the trees or chutes where if I had a fall no one would find me if I was unable to get moving again. I leave that for when I have a buddy to ski with. The same with diving. If I plan to exceed my normal limits of solo, I wait and do those with a buddy. I have never been too concerned with a catastrophic failure. You can plan around most of those.

I fish in the Bering Sea for a living. We lose boats up here every year. People that are unfamiliar with what we do usually think it has to be a catastrophic failure to lose one of these large vessels. It's not. It is always an accumulation of small problems that lead to the vessel becoming unstable. I think most diving fatalities are similar. It is an accumulation of small errors that cause the final outcome. They can be as simple as not checking gauges or depth or time or improper maintenance of gear or any number of small problems that are easily overcome until they are allowed to accumulate and create a situation. This accumulation of errors can happen whether solo or paired up depending on the individuals own vigilance, training and experience.

 

[F106A]

Two - by necessity. I learned early on that a number didn't necessarily mean safe. And was encouraged to be self sufficient. Comes in handy here in NJ. I'm thankful for the epiphony.