Quick bp/w advice, what size wing?

[Sik_Z33]

I need some quick advice before I pull the trigger and order my setup. I'm 6'2" 170 and primarily dive in warm water usually with no exposure protection but if it is a little cooler I wear a 3 mil wetsuit at most. The tank I use is a HP80 (pst) and sometimes Al80's but nothing any bigger.

I'm having a hard time deciding between a steel or aluminum backplate and the right wing to go with it. I'm leaning towards AL but I'm afraid I'll regret buying it if end up needing a weight belt with it when I have my wetsuit on.

For wings I'm looking at either the Deep Sea Supply Torus 26lb or Oxycheq Mach V Sig. 30lb but I'm starting to have second thoughts about it.I was wondering is a smaller size wing like the Torus 17lb or Oxycheq 18lb will provide enough lift to meet my needs since I want the setup to be as small and streamlined as possible and I don't want a wing with any more lift then I need.

Thank you very much in advance.

 

[fisheater]

Call Tobin at DSS. He's the MASTER at this.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

That he is!

Sik_Z33, I just bought a DSS rig for warm water diving (and a trip to the Keys in particular), and I did get the DSS Torus 17 wing after Tobin went over the calculations with me. What a delight it was! (I got a steel backplate.)

I had no exposure suit to compensate for, and I was diving with either AL 80 or AL 63 tanks.
The first day in the Keys I went to a place where I could get in the water with a tank on to check my buoyancy, and for me, with a full AL 80, I floated right at eye level with a normal breath. So I just added 5# of weight to compensate for the buoyancy of the tank as I used up air, and I was good to go.

I put 3# on the tank and 2# on a separate weight belt, so the rig itself weighed 13# at most, presuming I am remembering the calculations properly (plate = 4#, regs and harness = 2#, full tank = 4# negative, weights on tank = 3#).

Since I was wearing no wetsuit (just a dive skin), I didn't have to account for a wetsuit's change in buoyancy at depth.

What I would like to do is figure out how much buoyancy my 3mm wetsuit would lose at depth to see if I could still use the 17# wing with it.

I haven't used steel tanks, so those were not in the calculations.

As Fisheater said, Tobin is the Master Wing Calculator™. I was just running through my calculations for practice We'll see if I missed something.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I need some quick advice before I pull the trigger and order my setup. I'm 6'2" 170 and primarily dive in warm water usually with no exposure protection but if it is a little cooler I wear a 3 mil wetsuit at most. The tank I use is a HP80 (pst) and sometimes Al80's but nothing any bigger.

I'm having a hard time deciding between a steel or aluminum backplate and the right wing to go with it. I'm leaning towards AL but I'm afraid I'll regret buying it if end up needing a weight belt with it when I have my wetsuit on.

For wings I'm looking at either the Deep Sea Supply Torus 26lb or Oxycheq Mach V Sig. 30lb but I'm starting to have second thoughts about it.I was wondering is a smaller size wing like the Torus 17lb or Oxycheq 18lb will provide enough lift to meet my needs since I want the setup to be as small and streamlined as possible and I don't want a wing with any more lift then I need.

Thank you very much in advance.

Short cylinders like your HP80 can be a real problem for a BP&W. You never want the cylinder to be shorter than the wing. If the cylinder is shorter than the wing the chances of damaging the wing when the diver sits down on a bench or tailgate etc. is quite High.

The wing will fold under the bottom of tank, and the tank will beat a hole in the inner bladder. Donut wings only make this problem worse as the lower arc of the wing contains bladder.

If you plan on continuing to use yoru HP 80 my recommendation would be a DSS LCD 20 wing.

This the shortest wing we make and it's a horseshoe style, meaning there is no bladder in the center bottom of the wing. This wing is compact and streamlined.

At 6'2" I'd suggest a large back plate. With steel tanks and thin suits I'd suggest a lightweight kydex plate.

A large Kydex plate & Harness will be a bout -2 lbs, your reg about -2 and a full PST HP 80 will be a bout -9, making your rig about -13 with a full cylinder. A 20 lbs wing will float this easily. Your 3 mil suit can only loose about 4-5 lbs max if full compressed so that's also covered with a 20 lbs wing.

With al 80's you will probably need about 4 lbs of lead when using your 3mm suit.

Recap

Large Kydex Plate
Hogarthian Harness
LCD 20 Wing
(cambands and wedge blocks are included)

Tobin

 

[Sik_Z33]

Hey thanks for the response, I didn't realize my tank would pose a problem for a bp/w setup! I see what your saying and it makes sense but I really would prefer a full circle wing because I've read it makes getting air out of it easier. With the horseshoe wing there's only a bottom dump valve on one side correct? I only have experience with full circle wings so is trapped air on one side of the wing underwater something I should be worried about?

I could buy a tank that will work better with a bp/w and sell my hp80 but only if there are significant advantages of using a full circle wing vs a horseshoe style wing. If not I think the set up you recommended sounds really good and I appreciate you taking your time to help me out!

 

[SangP]

Sik_Z33,

I don't see a shorter tank as a problem as lots of divers use short tanks. You just have to be a tad more careful when settling down, that or have a stool ready.

Having dive beach entry with multiple tanks n a huge doubles wing, you just have to find something to set the rig on before rigging up.

Either that or inflate the wing fully, ride it into the water n do a water rig up.

I have the mach v 30 wing and having used 30 lbs wings from oms, halcyon, dive rite, I really prefer the design of the Mach V 30. Doesn't hurt that it's one of the toughest wing I've ever used.

The difference between the 18lbs n 30lbs in terms of size is really minimal n the extra 12 lbs really helps when bobbing about in rough seas.

SangP

 

[ajduplessis]

The plate can be steel or ali (use ali if you travel a lot). Wings shapes is a preference thing. I prefer the doughnut shape as its is more steamlined IMO, not horseshoe. You are bigger and would suggest a 40lb wing, (very little size diff between the two) as the extra lift gives you flexibility. I love Halcyon, however not everyone agrees as they are $$$$$$$$$

As mentioned, the shorter tanks could pinch the doughnut wing, I have not had issues with my 72 short and wing.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I see what your saying and it makes sense but I really would prefer a full circle wing because I've read it makes getting air out of it easier. With the horseshoe wing there's only a bottom dump valve on one side correct? I only have experience with full circle wings so is trapped air on one side of the wing underwater something I should be worried about?

That's common misconception. In reality little to no air passes through the lower arc of a donut wing.

Remember gas in a wing always goes to the highest point of the wing, always.

The lower arc of a donut wing is the absolutely lowest point of the wing, it's under the lower end of the cylinder for a horizontal diver.

The gas in a wing is typically in the two side "pontoons" that can roll up around tank.

To shift gas from one side to the other through the lower arc requires the diver be about 45 degrees heads down.

Precision venting is most important during ascents, and few ascend while 45 degrees heads down.

What makes any wing, horseshoe or donut easy to vent or hard to vent is the over all width of the wing. High volume, wide profile wings with wide center panels will wrap the tank more.

More wrap requires the diver break trim to move the gas into the top arc of the wing.

All DSS singles wing feature a 3" wide center panel for minimum tank wrap.

Short tanks do damage wings. A careful diver might get away with it for a while, but often others may be moving your gear around, deck hands etc who aren't familiar with the gear, and the short tanks beat a hole in the bladder.

Tobin

 

[DiverLaura]

misconception or not, i find the ability to utilize the lower arc quite convenient. indeed this could just be the 'design' of the evolve and eclipse wings with regards to shape, but i really do think i can feel the gas traveling around the loop compared to my horseshoe wing.

I have fair bit of video footage of my buddies using the butt dump and seeing the lower arc with gas in it when they go head down slightly.

 

[Kern]

misconception or not, i find the ability to utilize the lower arc quite convenient. indeed this could just be the 'design' of the evolve and eclipse wings with regards to shape, but i really do think i can feel the gas traveling around the loop compared to my horseshoe wing.

I have fair bit of video footage of my buddies using the butt dump and seeing the lower arc with gas in it when they go head down slightly.

From scooter girl, the Halcyon proselytiser, to Laura the manufacturer.

Are you saying, yes you need to be head down to get gas through the bottom arch, or that it will travel through the arch while horizontal due to magical design? Do your vids show a horizontal reference for both diver & videographer? If they do, I'd like to see them, because it would be interesting to see the nature of reality defeated, assuming you mean gas will travel through the arch while horizontal. Also, could you define, "go head down slightly", in terms an approximate head down angle? :blinking: