A Cert Card for everything, including how to tie your shoe...

[MXGratefulDiver]

As much as we dislike it, it takes these salomi-sliced courses to attract the youngsters. Gen-X and the Millenium Generation just don't have the self-discipline nor patience to sit through (a) longer class(es).

I haven't found that to be the case. My classes can, on week-ends, run from 8 AM till around 6 PM and I haven't seen any noticeable generational difference when it comes to either aptitude or attention span.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jax]

Yes, I can imagine it must be wonderful for students that come to you and are therefore self-motivated.

So many simply do not have the perseverence to practice and accomplish required skills or functional areas.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Yes, I can imagine it must be wonderful for students that come to you and are therefore self-motivated.

So many simply do not have the perseverence to practice and accomplish required skills or functional areas.

What makes you assume such things?

Yes, my students do seek me out. But the reality is that most of them have no more aptitude, and in some cases no more motivation to work hard than the ones I used to teach through the dive shop. A lot of them come to me because someone they know recommended me, and they didn't know anybody else. They're no different, really, than the usual dive shop students.

Everybody's different. I have to work harder with some students than others. I have to remind some students (sometimes more than once) that purchasing a class doesn't guarantee a certification. I have to find ways to help some students overcome natural fear of the water ... or in many cases, simply a fear of failure.

I don't look at the age of my students and make assumptions about their ability to learn or to pay attention. Everybody's different. The only way to know, really, is to gauge how they're responding as individuals and if what you're doing isn't getting through, try something else.

FWIW - the student who I had to work with the longest and hardest to get through my AOW curriculum was a 20-something. She worked her butt off ... but was just one of those people who didn't take to it naturally. Motivation? Class was barely over when she asked me if I'd teach her a deep diver specialty. She worked her butt off at that, too ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jax]

What makes you assume such things?

Experience with said generations. I'm glad you see different.

 

[wrybosome]

You are [-]an idiot [/-] wrong because you generalized your perspective onto an entire group of people. Might as well said that white men can't jump, black men can't swim, or that Jews are penny pinchers.

Jax, I've got to agree with Mike on this, at least on the substance if not the style. I'm a gen x guy (born 1972) and absolutely without reservation will put our work ethic and rational powers up against any other generation's.

I didn't and probably won't read the article you linked. I don't honestly care if some educators say that this isn't so...others will say it is. Bitching about 'the kids today' is probably the world's oldest sign of having been around a while. Sometimes I catch myself in this, when I meet a twenty year old and they seem a little callow. But I try to remember I probably wasn't much different.

Cheers,

Tim

 

[Superlyte27]

The guys that started PADI "got" the free market system. They saw that scuba training was not meeting the market needs, and they created a new training system that met those needs. Their new business model worked spectacularly well in making scuba accessable, and most divers today are divers because of the new training model that PADI invented.

PADI and the other agencies continue to change and innovate as technologies and markets change. That is a good thing. Business must continue to experiment with new products and new ideas. As with all businesses, they must evolve or die. And it is the consumer who will decide what is wanted and needed and affordable.

Like any industry leader, PADI gets its share of criticism. Your idea that PADI customers are not getting good value for their training dollar is easy to test: Just start your own training agency and offer a better deal.

I wasn't picking on PADI specifically, I think most of the agencies suck

 

[boulderjohn]

As an educator for nearly 40 years, I really can't say I have noticed any real difference in generations as a whole.

There is one difference that has been noted by some researchers, though.

Back in the day the long lecture was the standard for education, and people were very much used to it. You would rate the difference in educators by their differing abilities to maintain audience interest during such events. It was what was expected by students, and it was thus generally accepted.

Today we know that there are much better ways to instruct, and these methods are slowly making their way into education, first at the elementary levels, and then at the secondary levels. Students who have started to become accustomed to active learning activities and projects as primary instructional processes tend to be less accepting of droning lectures when they encounter them.

I was once a part of an instructional project at an elite university, a project that included traditional large group lectures by experienced faculty members. My part was to do project work based on that learning. By the end of the semester, the lecture halls were largely empty, but it had no impact on my part of the project, because the students had figured out that they could get the information on their own without enduring the lectures.

I know of a case a few years ago where a student in another a class made a statement about how stupifyingly boring the class was. The teacher said, "It is my job to be boring, and it is your job to be bored. That is how education works."

Such dinosaurs are getting harder and harder to find, and the fact that students are looking for more engaging alternatives does not mean they have less of an attention span--it just means they are looking for something better, and becoming more savvy on how to get it.

 

[mikemill]

So, because the "generalizations" (so called because they apply generally) don't apply to YOU (you who gladly left the "general" education system), I'm an idiot? And I guess that all the educators that wrote the articles are also idiots?

Non sequitur.

If you generalize something such as an idea, you apply it more widely than its original context, as if it was true in many other situations

But just because one generalizes a concept doesn't make it true. For example, I have fallen into the trap a few times of generalizing that all the Florida divers are a-holes because I've found a group of them here to be. When I step back I'm sure that is far from the truth.

BTW I work at a school, I'm not impressed by "educators". Of course part of this might have something to do with their failures during my schooling.

Experience with said generations. I'm glad you see different.

I'm willing to bet that a lot has to do with your approach.

I know of a case a few years ago where a student in another a class made a statement about how stupifyingly boring the class was. The teacher said, "It is my job to be boring, and it is your job to be bored. That is how education works."

Such dinosaurs are getting harder and harder to find, and the fact that students are looking for more engaging alternatives does not mean they have less of an attention span--it just means they are looking for something better, and becoming more savvy on how to get it.

Sadly (to me) tenure keeps some of them around for far too long.

 

[Jax]

But just because one generalizes a concept doesn't make it true. For example, I have fallen into the trap a few times of generalizing that all the Florida divers are a-holes because I've found a group of them here to be. When I step back I'm sure that is far from the truth.

BTW I work at a school, I'm not impressed by "educators". Of course part of this might have something to do with their failures during my schooling.

I'm willing to bet that a lot has to do with your approach.

Sadly (to me) tenure keeps some of them around for far too long.

Sadly, I agree with most everything you've said here. Except for the approach thing. I've had too many successes.

 

[DCBC]

Hey Wayne,

Hope all is well with you and that you are loving the new job.

The goal of better training and better divers is something we share. I am glad that some agencies and instructors push that agenda. More power to them, and I wish them nothing but success!

As to the OP's basic premise, I note that CMAS is also offering specialty courses.

Thanks Mike! Yes, CMAS offers Specialty Courses the minimum training hours are:

1. Search and Rescue Specialty: 3 hours Classroom, 8 hours Openwater

2. Ice Diving Specialty, after Two Star (**) Diver (after One Star Diver an additional 50 hours training, 20 OW dives with a minimum 50 hours logged): The Specialty requires 5 classroom lectures followed by 3 dives.

3. Underwater Navigation: 3 hours Classroom, 3 hours Sheltered OW, 3 hours OW

4. Dry Suit Specialty (if not included in the One Star Program): Classroom (1 hour), Sheltered OW (1 hour), OW (2 dives)

That's all I'm aware of. Everything else falls within the **** Star Training System or is identified as a Nitrox, Trimix, Cave, Scooter, or Rebreather or Gas Blender program and is not considered to be a "Specialty."