Are you a Dive Hypocrite?

[Blackwood]

That's not a problem for you, but if you choose not to dive past [-]5[/-]100' on air (like PfcAJ), don't have many funds (or choose to spend your money differently) and want to dive often. You [-]either[/-] don't go beyond [-]5[/-]100'.

Fixed

Correct. If I have a max planned air depth (which I do), I will do other dives until I get the helium.

I'm not a professional diver, but I don't imagine you pay for your own gases. Do you?

 

[liv2themax]

What a wonderfully interesting thread on weight and responsibility in diving.

On the questions of the OP: I agree with the majority on here. Your freedom stops when you injure me. The fact that we have laws that cause injury to others for what should be "Darwin awards" is a problem in the legal system, not in personal freedoms. Don't break something to compensate for something else that is already broken. Others have said it better in previous posts.

On the issue of weight, I personally have never had a problem. I have watched a family member struggle with it and as such I am aware that telling someone to eat less and exercise, while true in the majority of situations, is not received well by the individual at which the advice is directed. They may work out, but that will trigger more eating. It is very difficult to work out, feel hungry, and then grab a granola bar for lunch.

After five years of frustration, what finally did work was an app on the family member's iPhone that tracked caloric intake. She was very surprised to see how quickly the calories added up, and just how little an hour on the treadmill would burn. After that, it was her personal battle to win or lose. Thankfully she has won that battle and is now healthy and fit. Bottom line, nobody wants to feel like a failure. Some have to battle harder than others to drop the weight and that can be frustrating. The solution may be non-complex, but the discomfort of eating less, working out more, and picking healthy foods is not easy.

Also, my family could make the case that I am "genetically predisposed" to being over weight as both my parents were fat and my father still is very overweight. At a young age I realized that I didn't have the high metabolism of some and adjusted my eating accordingly. Limited breakfast, snack at lunch, and a good early dinner get it done for me. Would I like to eat more? Yes. Can I eat more and stay fit? No. Now, I'm going diving...seriously.

 

[it_mike]

Well if you look in the last generations or two we've moved from a work force mainly of manual laborers and factory workers to a work force with a lot more office workers (and yes the explosion of fast food).

Add to that the increase in hours worked. Unlike much of the developed world, my standard work week is over 70 hours. 10-12 hours a day at the office, added to the commute, time with the kids, time with the wife, and studies to keep my skills up to date...what time's really left for physical activity? Which of the 4-6 hours a day I get to sleep should I give up?

Personally, I'm 5'10" and weighed ~140lbs until I quit smoking in 2003. Over the next year, I ballooned to ~220lbs. In the past seven years, I've only been able to get down to 185lbs once. I sit hear now, consuming half portions of healthy food, and still can't get back below ~210lbs. I dive two weekends a month, with exertion (scrubbing rock work and glass), and do all of the regular physical activities (push mower, stairs, playing with the teens, etc), all to no avail.

Pointing to obesity levels in 1980 fails to take into consideration the impact of lifestyle changes caused by technology. Is the blossoming obesity do to 'laziness' or just a societal change/evolution? Long hours at the office, demands on your time to support/raise your children, long commutes, community service/volunteer time... How many people actually perform physical activity for work today as compared to just thirty years ago?

 

[DCBC]

Fixed

Correct. If I have a max planned air depth (which I do), I will do other dives until I get the helium.

I'm not a professional diver, but I don't imagine you pay for your own gases. Do you?

I'd appreciate if you don't "fix" my words. You can disagree with what I have to say, but my words stand and don't need anyone to "fix" them.

When I'm working, or if I'm doing recreational diving close to where I work, I don't pay for gas. As I'm also a recreational diver, if I dive helium I pay for gas like anyone else.

 

[Sas]

How many people actually perform physical activity for work today as compared to just thirty years ago?

This just means you need to compensate in other ways such as eating healthier food and doing exercise out of work.

 

[Blackwood]

I'd appreciate if you don't "fix" my words. You can disagree with what I have to say, but my words stand and don't need anyone to "fix" them.

It seemed as if you were clarifying my position, but FWIW "fixed" doesn't mean your words were broken. Editing someone else's text is a common way to reply where there are only minor textual differences.

When I'm working, or if I'm doing recreational diving close to where I work, I don't pay for gas.

In which case diving for a living is moot, right? Unless you mean you dive on your own funds in order to keep your abilities in line with what's required for work (in which case is helium tax deductible? that would be slick!).

As I'm also a recreational diver, if I dive helium I pay for gas like anyone else.

As a purely recreational diver, my personal stance is: if I need a specific gas (and I think most people will agree that at a certain point gases other than air are required even if that point varies from person to person) to do a dive, I will wait to do that dive until I can obtain the gas.

 

[DaleC]

As a purely recreational diver, my personal stance is: if I need a specific gas (and I think most people will agree that at a certain point gases other than air are required even if that point varies from person to person) to do a dive, I will wait to do that dive until I can obtain the gas.

I don't think many would disagree with that statement. The debate is where that line is drawn. Does it vary from person to person or is it arbitrarily drawn in the water column? I will/do dive to 110-120' (130' for a very short time) in local waters almost weekly on air but I am not comfortable going much below that. Because I believe in being a self sufficient diver I do not want to risk mental impairment whether I am with another diver or solo. There are some dives I would like to do below that range but not enough that the cost of deep air training would be worthwhile (to me). There is enough in my current range to keep me busy for a long time as it is. For those few attractions below 120' I personally have decided to wait until I get the appropriate training to use He. That might make some think I am being responsable but at the same time I also intend to deep dive He solo

Having said that though, I realise that other people may have different tolerances, motivations, environmental considerations etc... than I do. I don't think it is my place to transpose my personal risk assessment/comfort level on them.

 

[drrich2]

Here in the USA, 90% of all Medicare and Medicaid dollars are spent treating complications of lifestyle choices (typically these are eating too much, smoking too much and drinking too much alcohol).

Maybe the chronically ill don;t life too long, but they suck up the health care dollars.

And typically 90% of health care dollars are spent treating people in the last week of their life.

That first '90%' wouldn't all disappear if obesity did. Way back when, the big majority of deaths were due to infectious disease, I believe. Now it's chronic health conditions like heart disease, cancer and stroke. And we often hear how suicide, homicide or accidents are one of the 'leading causes of death' in some young age group.

Everybody dies. There'll always be a leading cause of death.

And everybody who lives over a week has a last week of life.

To follow up from an earlier posting,

Elderly patients are not usually the most costly patients (often sub acute care recipients) and healthy people work longer and contribute more in taxes and pension plans to offset their inevitable health care costs.
Morbidly obese people have dramatically shorter work spans, contribute less financially to their own care costs and often wind up in acute care facilities for sub/non acute reasons that become "acute" because of their obesity.

Elderly people cost a lot. I don't know a percentage. Look at the scads of expensive prescriptions a # of them are on.

As for morbidly obese people having dramatically shorter work spans, that brings up the 'overweight' vs. various degrees of obesity issue. Personally, if I ever get 20 years in the state retirement system & get the option to draw on the 401K to buy 5 years service credit & get a livable pension, I plan to retire regardless of how healthy I am. Some people retire & become 'non-productive' because they can, not because they can't work, regardless of age.

Richard.

 

[Superlyte27]

Fixed

Correct. If I have a max planned air depth (which I do), I will do other dives until I get the helium.

I'm not a professional diver, but I don't imagine you pay for your own gases. Do you?

Truth be told, no I don't pay for my own gas. But I wouldn't waste other people's money either. I'm completely comfortable with air. For me, there is little reason to use Helium above 200feet. But, not everyone is like me.

The first time you drank a beer, it affected you more than the 100th time you drank a beer. Before long it took several beers to get you buzzed. And even more to get you drunk. People build up a tolerance. Just like the beer analogy, imagine a commercial diver who has spent literally thousands of hours at depths greater than 100' on air, what's his tolerance?

Nope, it isn't the same for everyone, but I have a beautiful wife and 4 beautiful children, and if I wasn't 100% sure I was safe, I wouldn't risk their futures for it.

 

[Doc Harry]

....Now it's chronic health conditions like heart disease, cancer and stroke.....

And what do you think causes all of that heart disease and strokes?

Obesity >> diabetes & high blood pressure >> heart disease & strokes

The only people who say that obesity does not cause all of these disease are... obese people.

Google: "Metabolic syndrome"