Diving Education Today

[MauiScubaSteve]

Ain't is also in the dictionary, but it ain't because it's a proper word, it's because proper education ain't high on the human priority list.

Sorry it is a word. You couldn't find a lexicographer in the world who would claim otherwise if you tried.

Since you quoted my statement it should have been obvious that I never typed that ain't is not a word. I typed that it is not a proper word.

My faithful Random House Dictionary is copyright 1980 and below is everything it has in print under Ain't;

, Nonstandard. 1. am not. 2. are not, is not, have not or has not.. -- Usage. Ain't is so widely regarded as a nonstandard form that it should be shunned generally. Ain't occurs occasionally in self-consciously folksy, humorous contexts (she ain't what she used to be!), but it is unacceptable in formal writing or speech.

That you don't know how a word is commonly used does not make that use invalid, it merely makes you ignorant.

My use above seems to be exactly as it is defined; self-consciously folksy humor. I think that means I'm not the ignorant one (this time).

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

If we look at how a modern sport is defined, we could use the following:

DEFINITION OF SPORT:
Sport Definition | Definition of Sport at Dictionary.com

1) Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and
often engaged in competitively.

2) A particular form of this activity.

3) An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a
set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

4) An active pastime; recreation.

For the sake of argument, and I might agree with Halemano, let's toss out number 4 as being "watered down" and we'll look at definitions 1, 2 and 3 as they apply to scuba diving. The first 3 definitions, I think we could agree defines most generally accepted definitions for a sport and was also how the Greeks separated a sport, from a game, and from play. Games and play do not need physical activity to the same level as a sport. For example, chess is a game that only requires the player to move a playing piece and may be played without the player moving his own pieces. Play, such as gazing at clouds and pretending they are other shapes, requires very little physical activity and also has little if any rules or defined goals.

Well my favorite philosophy reading was more along the lines of The Teachings of Don Juan and the Tao of Motorcycle Repair but I have to say that it's mostly Greek to me. What I am looking at is the accepted definition as society saw it at different points in history.

Again, from my circa 1980 Random House Dictionary, everything under Sport;

n, 1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature. 2. jest or fun: to say something in sport. 3. mockery or ridicule: to make sport of someone. 4. an object of mockery. 5. Informal, a sportsmanlike or accommodating person. 6. Informal, a person interested in sports as an occasion for gambling. 7. an animal or plant that shows an unusual deviation from the normal type. --adj. Also, sports. 8. of or for a sport or sports. 9. suitable for informal wear: sports cloths. --v.i. 10. to play or frolic. 11. to trifle or treat likely. --v.t. 12. Informal, to wear or display, esp. with ostentation.

So, in 29 years the definition seems to have split number 1 into three separate numbers and grown a new entry. The web dictionary page linked below has the new one it at number 3! I'd love for someone else to post a 1970 definition!

Sport Definition | Definition of Sport at Dictionary.com

Now let's look at a statement in another post here;

I'm not very strong or athletic, and I have never had any aptitude for anything that requires physical skill.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I have met two couples that proved to me that SCUBA is not a sport. One couple came out to Molokini with ProDiver when I was the guide. The woman had 80 dives and was certified as AOW, EAN, Drift, Boat and Naturalist, but she could not swim underwater. I had to leave her under the boat and guide the rest of the group without them. On the way back to shore she told me 75 of her dives had been drift dives.

The other couple were obese, she not as bad as him. This was a Wailea Resort beach dive so I hauled his gear down to the water. We did about a third of a normal dive to a depth of only 20' and then I carried the gear back to the dive shack. A half an hour later he finally made it back to the shack to pay the tab, and he came straight to the shack from the beach. They had over 50 dives, again mostly drift in Coz. He couldn't have carried a briefcase up one flight of stairs, but he was also AOW and EAN.

I am not complaining, both couples tipped appropriately. I only bring those dives up because those SCUBA couples are not participating in a sport; they can't physically handle a sport. They can just barely handle drift diving and can't really handle non-drift diving other than looking at a very small part of the bottom.

Oh yah, all four of them had blue hair, but the conversation was intelligent.

 

[DCBC]

Interesting how the topic has moved away from diver education to dictionary definitions...

 

[BDSC]

Let me see if I can turn this back to diver education for a moment.

I read on here all the time where people say that todays training has been "dumbed down" or something to that effect. So here is a question for some of you folks who have been in this business/sport/hobby for many years.

Can anyone specifically give examples of what use to be taught in an Basic OW course that is no longer being taught that without that knowledge, you have put the new diver in some type of jepordy? (He/she is less safe) For example, what has NAUI/PADI or whomever dropped from their course that they taught maybe 20 years ago and no longer include in todays course?

I'm not really talking about how the course material is taught (online vs class at a shop etc.) so much as what is being taught.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Since you quoted my statement it should have been obvious that I never typed that ain't is not a word. I typed that it is not a proper word.

In Lexicography the notion of a "proper" word does not exist. That is the realm of grammarians. Non-standard refers to grammatical usage, not to semantic viability. Words are not proper or improper. There are no good or bad words. A written collection of letters either signifies an intended and communally understood meaning or it doesn't it. If it does, it is a word. If it does not, it is not.

D'oh!

But let's just ignore that point. Your dictionary is wrong even from your perspective.

John Dryden was a very influential English poet and playwright. He's the guy "the age of Dryden" was named for. In 1693 he published translations of the satires of Juvenal and Persius. In Persius, vi 9, we find Persius playing his lyre: "Now sporting on thy lyre the loves of youth . . . ."

Given that Dryden was so influential a literary figure as to have a literary age named after him, to be commented upon as being one of the great influential writers of all time by the likes of Alexander Pope, Walter Scott, Lord Byron and T.S. Elliot we might presume he knew something of the proper use of language.

Oh, and for an earlier dictionary. Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary of 1913 has:

• 1. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
  2. A particular form of this activity.
• An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
• An active pastime; recreation.

 

[DCBC]

Let me see if I can turn this back to diver education for a moment.

I read on here all the time where people say that todays training has been "dumbed down" or something to that effect. So here is a question for some of you folks who have been in this business/sport/hobby for many years.

Can anyone specifically give examples of what use to be taught in an Basic OW course that is no longer being taught that without that knowledge, you have put the new diver in some type of jepordy? (He/she is less safe) For example, what has NAUI/PADI or whomever dropped from their course that they taught maybe 20 years ago and no longer include in todays course?

I'm not really talking about how the course material is taught (online vs class at a shop etc.) so much as what is being taught.

I will try to mention some of the course changes that pertain to the preparation of a diver to act as a member of a buddy team, so as to dive unsupervised. This does not include resort or other courses that quickly allow a person to be taken by the hand in warm clear vacation locations:

1. Reduced the level of in-water competence required.

Generally this decreased the swimming distance and some organizations allow the student to accomplish the assessment by using fins.

Comment: The amount of swimming ability required, is directly proportional to the environment where you dive. It is my experience that a lower degree of in-water ability of a diver is directly proportional to the panic time ratio. It seems reasonable that a person who is strong in the water is mentally and physically better prepared (all other things being equal) than a poor or non-swimmer in the water.

2. Confidence and familiarity

Many courses today do not allow the time necessary to build confidence in the use of equipment. Again, this is less noticeable if the students open-water experience is in a warm-water vacation environment that resembles a fish-bowl.

Skills like doff and donn, bailout and black-out drills (under mild harassment) can build confidence in both the equipment and the students ability to deal with a unexpected situation. These types of skills have been also used in the training of military and commercial divers and they have been proven to increase confidence and save lives when the diver is faced with a problem. I'm aware that we're not training military and commercial divers here, but the same techniques can in-fact better prepare a sport diver in case of an emergency.

3. Rescue skills

Rescue skills were included in the basic program. Some courses today may or may not include this. If a diver is to be an effective member of a buddy team, s/he must be able to understand what to do if a rescue is required.

4. Dive planning and air consumption

Divers had to be able to plan their dives and project there air consumption accordingly. Tide tables were also included. Basically if a diver is expected to dive unsupervised, they have to have the necessary skill-sets to select a safe diving area. Less emphases is on these skills today.

5. Buddy breathing

This was a mainstay that I still agree with. One training agency has prohibited the Instructor to teach this, while others still have retained it as a requirement. No doubt that this will open-up the debate even further.

These are a few areas. Obviously this is not limited to one organization, as most have lowered their minimum standards. Even 40 years ago, the level of training required was evident in the number of hours of training each organization required.

 

[BDSC]

I will try to mention some of the course changes that pertain to the preparation of a diver to act as a member of a buddy team, so as to dive unsupervised. This does not include resort or other courses that quickly allow a person to be taken by the hand in warm clear vacation locations:

1. Reduced the level of in-water competence required.

Generally this decreased the swimming distance and some organizations allow the student to accomplish the assessment by using fins.

Comment: The amount of swimming ability required, is directly proportional to the environment where you dive. It is my experience that a lower degree of in-water ability of a diver is directly proportional to the panic time ratio. It seems reasonable that a person who is strong in the water is mentally and physically better prepared (all other things being equal) than a poor or non-swimmer in the water.

Thanks for all your input but I guess what I was looking for was something like, PADI/whomever use to require a 200 yd. swim and tread water for 10 minutes and now only require 100 yds. with fins and you don't have to tread water. (This is just an example of what I am looking for and not saying this is how it is)

2. Confidence and familiarity

Many courses today do not allow the time necessary to build confidence in the use of equipment. Again, this is less noticeable if the students open-water experience is in a warm-water vacation environment that resembles a fish-bowl.

Skills like doff and donn, bailout and black-out drills (under mild harassment) can build confidence in both the equipment and the students ability to deal with a unexpected situation. These types of skills have been also used in the training of military and commercial divers and they have been proven to increase confidence and save lives when the diver is faced with a problem. I'm aware that we're not training military and commercial divers here, but the same techniques can in-fact better prepare a sport diver in case of an emergency.

I have no doubt that these would be great skills for a new diver to learn but were these skills taught in a basic OW course in the past and no longer are?

3. Rescue skills

Rescue skills were included in the basic program. Some courses today may or may not include this. If a diver is to be an effective member of a buddy team, s/he must be able to understand what to do if a rescue is required.

While I do not remember if we touched on basic rescue skills when I took my OW course I do think this is something that should be taught or at least touched on if it is not.

4. Dive planning and air consumption

Divers had to be able to plan their dives and project there air consumption accordingly. Tide tables were also included. Basically if a diver is expected to dive unsupervised, they have to have the necessary skill-sets to select a safe diving area. Less emphases is on these skills today.

I know for a fact we never went over tide tables in my class but I'm not sure if that was ever a part the routine class in the past or not. We did have to plan our dives using tables.

5. Buddy breathing

This was a mainstay that I still agree with. No doubt that this will open-up the debate even further.

This is exactly what I was looking for. I did not know agencies no longer taught this. We were taught it back in 91. I agree it should still be taught.

I guess what I am really looking for is very specific things that show the quality of training has diminished. Like an OW course was X number of classroom hours and now it's only Y number of hours. Or you use to have to do XY&Z skills in the pool or on your checkout dives and now they only make you do X&Y skills. (Like you pointed out with buddy breathing) It's easy to say that there is less emphasis on teaching this concept/skill than there use to be. I just woud like something based more in fact than opinion. But I may very well be asking for something that's not black and white and there is no real evidence one way or the other.

I realize that PADI and NAUI aren't the only two players in the training game but are no doubt the two largest and train the most divers. I was hoping either some current or former instructors could give specifics on how they have seen the requirments "dumbed down".

Like Sergeant Joe Friday use to say, "Just the facts mam, just the facts".

 

[rstofer]

I was taught buddy breathing (single hose) circa '88. My buddy and I used to practice it from time to time. We also did air-sharing just to relieve boredom. There have been some dives where there wasn't a single living thing to look at.

However... EVERY diver today has an octo. Ok, except the vintage guys... There is no reason to practice buddy breathing for other than 'because I can'. Since the new 'standard' is to donate a primary, the donating diver had better be certain that his octo actually works. The second part of the new 'standard' has the octo on a necklace rather than clipped off somewhere on the BC. There should be no hesitation in getting the octo in service.

It is worthwhile to actually breath from your octo during the dive. When I used an Air II device (warm water) I would routinely breath from it for several minutes on every dive.

Buddy breathing on ascent does bring up the opportunity for breath holding. Given that the skill is unnecessary and also carries risk, many agencies have walked away from it. Seems right to me!

And even if it isn't taught, it's not brain surgery. The main trick is for the donating diver to keep his hand on the regulator. UNDER the recipients hand. Sometimes recipients are reluctant to return the regulator. That, and keep blowing bubbles...

Two first stages and 4 regs between 2 divers ought to cover it.

Buddy breathing is still important for many of the vintage divers because they may not have an octo. Here, the skill is worth maintaining. Buddy breathing from a double hose regulator does take some confidence building. But vintage divers are likely to already know this skill or they will play in the pool until they do. Dedicated, these vintage divers are...

Richard

 

[dadediver]

I will try to mention some of the course changes that pertain to the preparation of a diver to act as a member of a buddy team, so as to dive unsupervised. This does not include resort or other courses that quickly allow a person to be taken by the hand in warm clear vacation locations:

1. Reduced the level of in-water competence required.

Generally this decreased the swimming distance and some organizations allow the student to accomplish the assessment by using fins.

Comment: The amount of swimming ability required, is directly proportional to the environment where you dive. It is my experience that a lower degree of in-water ability of a diver is directly proportional to the panic time ratio. It seems reasonable that a person who is strong in the water is mentally and physically better prepared (all other things being equal) than a poor or non-swimmer in the water.

With all due respect, in my sons and wifes training there were several 17-18 year olds that were on the swim team and swam VERY well. But two of these kids dropped out due to not being comfortable "underwater". The instructor tried to talk them into staying in the class, but they would not have it. This was in the second and third week of training that they dropped out.

2. Confidence and familiarity

Many courses today do not allow the time necessary to build confidence in the use of equipment. Again, this is less noticeable if the students open-water experience is in a warm-water vacation environment that resembles a fish-bowl.

Skills like doff and donn, bailout and black-out drills (under mild harassment) can build confidence in both the equipment and the students ability to deal with a unexpected situation. These types of skills have been also used in the training of military and commercial divers and they have been proven to increase confidence and save lives when the diver is faced with a problem. I'm aware that we're not training military and commercial divers here, but the same techniques can in-fact better prepare a sport diver in case of an emergency.

3. Rescue skills

Rescue skills were included in the basic program. Some courses today may or may not include this. If a diver is to be an effective member of a buddy team, s/he must be able to understand what to do if a rescue is required.

4. Dive planning and air consumption

Divers had to be able to plan their dives and project there air consumption accordingly. Tide tables were also included. Basically if a diver is expected to dive unsupervised, they have to have the necessary skill-sets to select a safe diving area. Less emphases is on these skills today.

5. Buddy breathing

This was a mainstay that I still agree with. No doubt that this will open-up the debate even further.

These are a few areas. Obviously this is not limited to one organization, as most have lowered their minimum standards. Even 40 years ago, the level of training required was evident in the number of hours of training each organization required.

With all of my sons and wifes BOW training (YMCA for all but one which was SSI) these skills were done. The air consumption was also covered and this was even on their final test on how to calculate it. Keep in mind that this was 5 different classes and 4 different instructors. They even had to swim 200 yards in the pool buddy breathing along with 200 yards air sharing (off the octo) also. I am going to assume that this was the standards, for the instructors had a skills check off and these were marked off as they completed the skills correctly. This was one of the tougher skills for them along with the 50' underwater swim for the mask and snorkel retreival.

I too would be interested in know what specific standards had changed from the past to present.