Swell/Waves and rapid ascent

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

The part of the tire that is resting on the road is flat to the road surface. Asume that 6 inches of the tire thread is flat on the road. Although the tire is rolling the 6 inches that is touching the road is not moving in a circular motion, it is moving horizontally until it is no longer in contact with the road then it resumes circular motion until it contacts the road again. What don't you understand.

The bolded part is what I don't understand. The part of the tire that is touching the road is not moving at all, not horizontally, not in a circular motion, it is perfectly motionless. As a matter of interest, the path described by a point on the surface of a rolling wheel is called a cycloid.

@Thalassamania: Thanks for the cool video clip, it illustrates the concept well. Correct me if I'm wrong though but it would seem as if the only points that show a significant vertical motion are those that are inside the swell itself. Or put differently, if the swell is 3m in amplitude, the middle green dot probably represents a 3m safety stop. The middle green dot shows very little vertical motion, at least not really comparable to the amplitude of the swell. Id be curious to know what the pressure difference on the middle green dot is as the swell moves over it.
 
The pressure differential will change from zero at the surface (well, a very minor shift there due to atmospheric) to twice the amplitude of the wave at the bottom.
 
The bolded part is what I don't understand. The part of the tire that is touching the road is not moving at all, not horizontally, not in a circular motion, it is perfectly motionless. As a matter of interest, the path described by a point on the surface of a rolling wheel is called a cycloid.

@Thalassamania: Thanks for the cool video clip, it illustrates the concept well. Correct me if I'm wrong though but it would seem as if the only points that show a significant vertical motion are those that are inside the swell itself. Or put differently, if the swell is 3m in amplitude, the middle green dot probably represents a 3m safety stop. The middle green dot shows very little vertical motion, at least not really comparable to the amplitude of the swell. Id be curious to know what the pressure difference on the middle green dot is as the swell moves over it.



(Quote)As a matter of interest, the path described by a point on the surface of a rolling wheel is called a cycloid.(quote)
A tire is soft so a portion of it conforms to the flatness of the road. That portion which is constantly changing has to move horizontally to the direction of travel of the car.
Think of the track on an army tank. A different part of the track is constantly coming into contact with ground and leaving contact with the ground. Although no part of the track moves in relation to where it touches the ground the length of the track is moving in a horizontal direction with the direction of movement of the tank.

If you took the wheel in the cycloid link and flattened it at the contact point, the point on the wheel would form a straight line parallel to the surface from the time it contacted the flat surface until it left the flat surface and there would be a straight line connecting the semi circles rather than them touching
 
Remember a safety stop is performed between 20' and 10' it does not have to be exactly 15'. Unless of course its a decompression stop. So in the end the movement or lack there of as a result of surg has no barring on a safety stop performed at 15'.
 
Remember that a safety stop is never a decompression stop and a decompression stop is never a safety stop, they are mutually exclusive.
 
The pressure differential will change from zero at the surface (well, a very minor shift there due to atmospheric) to twice the amplitude of the wave at the bottom.

I think I'm probably splitting hairs now and we're well outside the scope of practical diving physics but I'm not sure I can agree (or understand) this statement. As sschlesi pointed out in this and this post, the effect of a swell on the pressure at the bottom of the sea is not as directly coupled as this statement suggests. The pressure at any point is not a function of the distance from that point and a point directly above it an on the surface, it is rather a more complex function of the average distance between that point and a number of points spread out over the surface roughly above that point.

Like I said, I don't think this even resembles anything applicable to diving really. I'm not even sure I'm coming across clearly so never mind if I don't:D

A tire is soft so a portion of it conforms to the flatness of the road. That portion which is constantly changing has to move horizontally to the direction of travel of the car.
So if you're using the word "movement" do you refer to movement relative to the car or movement relative to the road? If you're referring to movement relative to the car then I would agree with the statement but I also then don't understand how it applies to the model of a point moving in water as a result of wave motion.

Think of the track on an army tank. A different part of the track is constantly coming into contact with ground and leaving contact with the ground. Although no part of the track moves in relation to where it touches the ground the length of the track is moving in a horizontal direction with the direction of movement of the tank.
Again, I'll agree with this because we're measuring movement on the track relative to the tank not relative to the ground (ie. movement on the track as viewed by an observer on the tank, not an observer on the road). To be more exact, the point on the track that is touching the ground will be moving backwards relative to the tank at exactly the same speed that the tank is moving forward relative to the ground - because now the tank is motionless and the ground is moving backwards (as opposed to the ground being motionless and the tank moving forward).

If you took the wheel in the cycloid link and flattened it at the contact point, the point on the wheel would form a straight line parallel to the surface from the time it contacted the flat surface until it left the flat surface and there would be a straight line connecting the semi circles rather than them touching
No it wouldn't. If a point touches the ground, it can not move relative to the ground (unless the weel is slipping of course, which is not the case here). For a horizontal line to exist on the bottom of the cycloid curve the point has to undergo horizontal movement and like you said in the bolded section above, no point of the tank's track (or the flattened wheel) moves in relation to where it touches the ground. In other words the point on the ground where that point first touches is exactly the same point where it will eventually leave the ground. If it is a perfectly round wheel then the point will leave the ground instantaneously, if it is a flattened wheel the point will remain on the ground a little bit longer before it leaves the ground and if it is a tank's track, the point wil remain on the ground for quite a bit longer. But for as long as the point touches the ground it will never move horizontally.

Again though, this is merely a mental exercise in physics/mathematics. I don't think it has any bearing anymore on describing a diver's situation under a swell so if you don't feel like agreeing with me, I don't think it's important to convince you.:)
 

Back
Top Bottom