Divemaster Responsibilities

[pilot fish]

Good point, Thal, and I'm definitely coming into this with a NorCal bias since that's where I've been trained and have done most of my diving. Regional standards are definitely important, although less clear-cut from a training perspective because they are rarely formally documented. As a DM in training, I'm planning on adopting the same principle divers are encouraged to use: don't dive beyond your training. If I move to a new area with different procedures, I'll need experience and training dealing with local standards before I'll expect to DM there. If the standard is complete supervision and assumption of all risk for divers at a location, I think I'll be electing not to DM there.

Not full, but SOME SUPERVISOIN, especially with a brand new diver.

 

[mikemath]

mike, I should have been more clear. I meant in relation to brand new divers that they will lead on a dive. A diver that has JUST completed thier training a few days earlier and this dive is thier FIRST dive post cert. he needs to be more alert to that diver, don't you think? THAT is in your training

Thanks for clarifying--yes, absolutely, a DM who knows that a diver was just certified or is inexperienced/out-of-practice will want to pay special attention to that diver, even in a group dive setting, and in my experience would usually buddy directly with that diver to help ensure that happens. The DM (unless privately hired as a buddy) still has a duty of care to the rest of the group, so will not be 100% focused on that diver, but that new diver will receive more attention than others. The diver still bears responsibility for their actions, but the DM should be paying enough attention to correct most problems before they become emergencies. I know I probably sound like a broken record regarding diver responsibility, but there will be situations where the DM has to manage the overall group risk by dealing with problems and emergencies with other divers. If the new diver decides that's a good time to swim down the face of the wall while the DM is engaged with another problem, the DM may have completely followed his training and performed his duty of care fully but still be unable to ensure the safety of that diver. The role of the DM is risk management, risk elimination is impossible.

 

[pilot fish]

You sound very plugged in to the DM training and responsiblity. You will be an excellent DM, just judging from this last post. We agree. Not FULLY responsible, but more responsible and more alrert to the new diver. Just think, if the person leading the fatal dive had your attitude and focus there would have been no fatality.

Thanks for clarifying--yes, absolutely, a DM who knows that a diver was just certified or is inexperienced/out-of-practice will want to pay special attention to that diver, even in a group dive setting, and in my experience would usually buddy directly with that diver to help ensure that happens. The DM (unless privately hired as a buddy) still has a duty of care to the rest of the group, so will not be 100% focused on that diver, but that new diver will receive more attention than others. The diver still bears responsibility for their actions, but the DM should be paying enough attention to correct most problems before they become emergencies. I know I probably sound like a broken record regarding diver responsibility, but there will be situations where the DM has to manage the overall group risk by dealing with problems and emergencies with other divers. If the new diver decides that's a good time to swim down the face of the wall while the DM is engaged with another problem, the DM may have completely followed his training and performed his duty of care fully but still be unable to ensure the safety of that diver. The role of the DM is risk management, risk elimination is impossible.

 

[D_B]

Thanks for clarifying--yes, absolutely, a DM who knows that a diver was just certified or is inexperienced/out-of-practice will want to pay special attention to that diver, even in a group dive setting, and in my experience would usually buddy directly with that diver to help ensure that happens. The DM (unless privately hired as a buddy) still has a duty of care to the rest of the group, so will not be 100% focused on that diver, but that new diver will receive more attention than others. The diver still bears responsibility for their actions, but the DM should be paying enough attention to correct most problems before they become emergencies. I know I probably sound like a broken record regarding diver responsibility, but there will be situations where the DM has to manage the overall group risk by dealing with problems and emergencies with other divers. If the new diver decides that's a good time to swim down the face of the wall while the DM is engaged with another problem, the DM may have completely followed his training and performed his duty of care fully but still be unable to ensure the safety of that diver. The role of the DM is risk management, risk elimination is impossible.

I (who knows nothing of DM'ing) like this post
... Being aware of potential problems before they happen ... sounds a lot like Rescue

 

[pilot fish]

OK, let me summarize what we've learned so far in regards to the difference between a DM and a DG. DM tells jokes, does a calypso tip dance and let's divers go to different depths in as many groups as they want, while he points out cool stuff. If an accident occurs to any member of the group of divers he is leading on the dive, he then becomes a DG with zero responsibilty. Did I miss anything? Oh, yeah, the Dive Op will call everyone a DM, till an accident occurs and then the DM automatically reverts to DG status, that has had minimal trianing in safety, rescue and general dive procedures.

 

[D_B]

You can summarize what you may have learned here, but not what I have learned from this thread

 

[pilot fish]

You can summarize what you may have learned here, but not what I have learned from this thread

You heard better DM jokes? Aren't you amazed, as I am, how quickly the DM status changes post accident?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The status of the DM does not change.What does change is the FALSE perception many have as to what that status is.

 

[boulderjohn]

The whole Dive Guide thing is a red herring. That is not a phrase that was has been in common use. It is, I believe, just another example of PADI-speak aimed at ex post facto reduction of liability. Virtually all people working as DMs or so called DGs are, in point of fact, Certified Instructors; holding them to a lower standard on some occasions is kind of like holding a physician to a first responder standard just because its not office hours.

I have read every post in this and the other more notorious thread, and I am baffled about the distinction between a DM and a DG, and this explanation of it as PADI-speak is even more interesting since I didn't know that PADI speaks of it. People are writing as if "Dive Guide" is some sort of lesser level of certification than divemaster. If so, it does not exist in PADI or any other system I know if. If someone can tell me what certifying agency has something called "Dive Guide," I would love to see the details. I have never encountered this term used as a distinction until the various discussions of this incident, so I would appreciate it if someone would give me a precise and authoritative explanation.

What has been recently mentioned and is very true is that what a divemaster does in fulfilling his or her duties varies tremendously from area to area and from operator to operator. I have written a number of posts pointing that out. People who have only experienced divemasters working in one or two styles naturally think that what they see is representative of all divemasters, but that it very far from the truth. Go to enough places and you will see everything imaginable, from staying on the boat and barely paying attention to being fully involved in dive planning and safety. Exactly 11 days ago I heard one of the most experienced divemasters in the Hawai'ian islands tell a group of divers that they were working as a group, and every one of them should consider her to be their buddy. "I am your buddy!" were her exact words, which is the exact opposite of what many people in this thread say is true.

People who have not been to a lot of different places and seen a lot of different styles should be careful about pronouncing the way things are.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Agreed, hence my post regarding people's perceptions of a DM. Although I'd consider myself diving solo if a DM ever made that kind of statement on a boat I was diving off of. I can just see 3 or 4 people having a problem and everybody waiting for Super DM to fix all of them at the same time while they hung around and did nothing. I consider that a dangerous and very misleading statement to make.