Nitrox and other academic lessons online

[elan]

I'm guessing Open Water is next. I predicted this months ago and want credit when all PADI SCUBA classes are online with a quick checkout dive Someplace Warm on vacation.

Terry

OW has been there for at least a year and a half, that's when I was doing it.

 

[CoralSeaMan]

I feel exactly the same way. Let me study on my own time then just hand me the test.

The physical skills part may/should need visual conformation by an instructor.

Why do you need the test? Based on the discussions here (and elsewhere) the Internet is the most effective way to transmit the information. If you have studied on your own, you know the material so why waste time taking any test? You know it. Get into the water, have your physical skills confirmed, and dive.

 

[Blackwood]

Why do you need the test? Based on the discussions here (and elsewhere) the Internet is the most effective way to transmit the information. If you have studied on your own, you know the material so why waste time taking any test? You know it. Get into the water, have your physical skills confirmed, and dive.

Tests aren't for the benefit of the student, they're for the benefit of the instructor/agency. If a dive accident were to occur some time in the future, they could pull out his test and say "look here at number 17: when we certified him he knew not to do that. It's not our fault."

 

[Teamcasa]

I feel exactly the same way. Let me study on my own time then just hand me the test.

The physical skills part may/should need visual conformation by an instructor.

Why do you need the test? Based on the discussions here (and elsewhere) the Internet is the most effective way to transmit the information. If you have studied on your own, you know the material so why waste time taking any test? You know it. Get into the water, have your physical skills confirmed, and dive.

Tests aren't for the benefit of the student, they're for the benefit of the instructor/agency. If a dive accident were to occur some time in the future, they could pull out his test and say "look here at number 17: when we certified him he knew not to do that. It's not our fault."

Exactly. Certifying agencies, their insurance companies and the lawyers all need proof that you did indeed learn it. Afterall, who's going to take your picture and collect your money?

Assuming you were serious in your reply, online study courses have been gaining in popularity across to board. Online learning may not be the best method for everyone, it may indeed be the best method for many folks.

 

[redacted]

Why do you need the test? Based on the discussions here (and elsewhere) the Internet is the most effective way to transmit the information. If you have studied on your own, you know the material so why waste time taking any test? You know it. Get into the water, have your physical skills confirmed, and dive.

When the subject is nitrox, what physical skills are you talking about? Analyze a tank maybe (It's going to happen each time you get a nitrox fill and you may run into many different analyzers). What else? Breath. Very good, now breathe again. I think you've got it. That will be $59.

 

[Web Monkey]

So far no agency has eliminated one second of pool or open water experience time in a program that offers the academics online. I have not seen any evidence that any agency has suggested they are thinking of doing this.

You have offered this opiinion before.

Do you know something I don't? Can you give the evidence you have for this repeated assertion?

It's the next logical step. And before you say "They would never do that", a year or two ago, people said that about OW and nitrox classes. A few years ago, people said that about weekend OW Certs. It's a race to the bottom, and so far, nobody has said "Stop!"

I can hear "But the RSTC would never allow this." coming up next, however the truth is that PADI needs the RSTC like I need antlers. They've built their brand name, and consumers don't care about (or even know about) the RSTC.

Once they can get the student to learn the material and immediately pass a written (online) test, they don't need a single human involved with the process except maybe the OW checkout dives, which can be handled at a resort. Pool time is apparently irreverent. The minimum is already so short that they might as well skip it and just add a "skills" session before the OW dive at the resort.

From their perspective a complete on-line "experience" that runs from sign up to mailing the c-card, with no instructors at all would be absolutely perfect.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Terry

 

[redacted]

It's the next logical step. And before you say "They would never do that", a year or two ago, people said that about OW and nitrox classes. A few years ago, people said that about weekend OW Certs. It's a race to the bottom, and so far, nobody has said "Stop!"

Terry

Not that I am disagreeing, but I think it is actually a race to the top. And the top is owned by the guys making the most money. So, cutting costs is one tactic to move closer to the top. Increasing the quality of the education is another but seems to be rarely effective. Making education more available and convenient is yet another. I'm sure someone would issue a c-card after a couple hours of education if they thought for a minute that they could get away with it and that potential liability would not eat them alive.

 

[fireflock]

It's the next logical step.

How is that logical?

 

[boulderjohn]

It's the next logical step.

You will have to explain why it is logical. That logic escapes me.

And before you say "They would never do that", a year or two ago, people said that about OW and nitrox classes.

Really? I guess I missed those discussions, and the OW class has been around for at least that long. I was wondering why it had happened sooner. I guess the reason is that I have been involved with online education since 1995, and I always saw its potential to deliver academic content in a way that is equal to or superior to what happens in the classroom.

A few years ago, people said that about weekend OW Certs. It's a race to the bottom, and so far, nobody has said "Stop!"

They have been saying that a lot longer than a few years ago. I was initially certified in a 3-day class much, much longer than a few years ago. Those classes have been around for a very long time. They were wrong decades ago, and they are equally wrong today. There is no recent downward spiral in that regard.

Why is online education for academics a race to the bottom? Major universities like Stanford have been offering online classes for more than a decade. Many major universities--I am not talking about scam schools--offer full degree programs online. What evidence do you have that they are inferior programs? Or is it a gut feeling?

Once they can get the student to learn the material and immediately pass a written (online) test, they don't need a single human involved with the process...

That is not how typical online education works, but if the student can learn the academics effectively that way, would that be a problem?

...except maybe the OW checkout dives, which can be handled at a resort.

Once again you are projecting a situation that has not even been hinted at. Pool time is still a requirement.

Pool time is apparently irreverent.

Although I do not conduct organized prayer during pool time, students may always pray of they feel the need. Hopefully they don't feel that need. (OK, just having some fun.) Pool time is still very much a requirement, as stated above, and for instructors fully complying with the standards, it is still very important.

The minimum is already so short that they might as well skip it and just add a "skills" session before the OW dive at the resort.

Even if you have a single adept student, it takes quite a while to get through all the required skills. In my 3-day class, the pool wok was indeed far too short, but that was done by skipping standards. My OW certification class was a very thorough violation of PADI standards when I took it many years ago, and would still be such today.

From their perspective a complete on-line "experience" that runs from sign up to mailing the c-card, with no instructors at all would be absolutely perfect.

How do you know their perspective? Why would this be a benefit to them?

 

[Web Monkey]

Not that I am disagreeing, but I think it is actually a race to the top. And the top is owned by the guys making the most money. So, cutting costs is one tactic to move closer to the top. Increasing the quality of the education is another but seems to be rarely effective. Making education more available and convenient is yet another. I'm sure someone would issue a c-card after a couple hours of education if they thought for a minute that they could get away with it and that potential liability would not eat them alive.

That's exactly my point. I don't see any reason that they would stop the process of issuing ever faster certs with less or no class/pool time. It's a huge money making machine and a very clean business.

Terry