LDS BS in Nitrox class today...

[BuoyantC]

I have a couple of comments here...

A reg needing service can just as likely be 'feeding" you air.

Also if your reg is breathing a little harder, you may be retaining CO2 and experience headaches after a dive. You may never realize your reg is breathing harder.

 

[Bubble Junky]

Really? I think thats Extremely debatable based on the Tons of posts that say otherwise... ie. that they didnt have problems UNTIL they serviced their reg.

Find a competant technician and there won't be a problem.

 

[snowflake4727]

I know everybody creates and reads b****y "my reg won't work after service" posts. Lets try something new. Post when your reg works perfectly or better after service. Maybe then we can get some unskewed data.

To the OP, have you ever tried to boil a frog? Start him in cold water and slowly heat it he will never know there is a problem. There are lots of examples in life where a small problem is not known because of constant exposure to it.

 

[Fishpie]

Most of the time a regulator will breath better when it needs a service as the IP is too high.

 

[redacted]

So, in the extreme, a hard breathing reg can increase WOB to the point where noticeable CO2 retention may occur in some situations. Why don't you ask the instructor at what WOB level or cracking pressure that would occur. You might also discuss whether cheaper, low performance regs contribute to CO2 retention even when operating in spec. Then you might want to discuss ways a diver can check his own gear to make sure it is operating satisfactorily. That should take you to the subject of how an IP gauge and a sink of water can be used to check your regs performance.

Everything you really need to know about nitrox is in the book. Using the class to understand why annual service may not be necessary may be more useful.

Enjoy

 

[cerich]

Most of the time a regulator will breath better when it needs a service as the IP is too high.

uhh...no.

 

[cerich]

regs that need service typically are performing sub optimal because of the darn pesky filter. Those things really do work and filter the air, as time goes on and they get exposed to various things (most often the diver using his tank to "dry" the already dry filter) it starts to get clogged up, that has a VERY noticeable adverse effect on regulator performance, and as stated by others poor performing regs ARE a factor in CO2 retention, thankfully modern regulator design has made this MUCH less a problem than it was even 20 years ago but still something to keep in mind.

 

[Fishpie]

Here's another go....
A regulator that needs to be serviced may very well have an IP that is too high. If the filter isn't clogged it may well breath easier than a newly serviced reg.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Heyhey I want to run something past you guys that I feel is suspect information...

Today I was doing the in-class portion of my Nitrox class and as part of the presentation one of the things the instructor covered was CO2 retention and the problems associated with it.

Now, I'm familiar with CO2 retention and had believed that it was encountered Purely as a result of ineffective/incomplete breathing patterns (ie. breathing too shallow/not fully emptying the lungs)

BUT he also trys to tell me that its related to people who dont service their regs regularly...

er... huh? Dammit. my BS alarms were in the red and I'm feeling like I'm being lied to/misled in order to sell shop services I probably dont need. (I am of the 'dont fix it if it aint broke' mentality and until I have a problem with my regs I dont intend to have them overhauled, plus for what they'll charge for the Regular service plan I could buy a brand new reg every 3-4 years)

So my question is... does not getting your reg serviced have ANYTHING to do with CO2 retention? (I'm guessing !@#$ no it doesnt)

I'd really hate to think that the instructor Truely believes this, but if the choice is ignorance vs. deceptive salesman its a lose-lose proposition.

If you believe your instructor is trying to deceive you then the obvious solution is to find an instructor you can trust.

that STILL doesnt sound like the Reg thats doing it to me...

to me it sounds like your talking about ineffective/incomplete breathing , working hard, and at depth breathing... yes all of those are factors, but how about this...

Given 40' depth, no exertion, no ineffective breathing how does an un-serviced reg make my CO2 higher?

If those are your typical dive profiles, then you aren't getting any benefit from Nitrox anyway. Why waste time and money on the class at all?

that the reg Itself is NOT causing CO2 retention , only that it COULD be a factor IF its Making you breath hard at Depth, but if its not hard to breath has absolutely NOTHING to do with CO2 retention.

Specific examples to the contrary ?

Ok so your suggesting that someone could be working hard to breath and Not know it?

Because there seems to be a discrepancy in that the diver says its working perfectly/Not having any breathing difficulty but the Flowbench says it IS making the diver work hard to breath? Wouldnt the Diver be the one to know if he/she is working to breathe?

The idea that I could be "working hard but dont Know it" seems like so much fearmongering scaretactics.

I suggest you get ahold of a copy of this book ... it does a pretty good job of explaining it to ya.

Really? I think thats Extremely debatable based on the Tons of posts that say otherwise... ie. that they didnt have problems UNTIL they serviced their reg.

Dont fix it if it aint broke...

I dunno ... just this past week-end I took my deco regs apart for service. They didn't breathe hard, nor show any overt signs of malfunction ... I just decided it was time.

I was amazed at how bad they were inside. The seat was absolutely hammered, and the filter didn't look at all like anything I wanted to breathe through. Took quite a bit of effort to clean them up. Then, when I put them back together, both of them had a creeping IP. Turns out there was enough corrosion on the knife-edge to create a problem. Didn't occur prior to cleaning because the old seat had worn around the corrosion and was creating "just enough" of a seal to make the problem not apparent.

But I wouldn't want to stake my dive ... or my safety ... on the effectiveness of corrosion to retain a good seal.

My advice ... given the dives you say you're doing, forget the nitrox class. Use that money and take a good regulator maintenance class. Get to understand how the reg works. Take your own reg apart and see how it functions. Then maybe what your instructor was trying to tell you will make more sense.

I don't take anything he said ... as you posted it ... as fear-mongering. Rather, perhaps, he didn't do such a good job of explaining why that might be the case.

... in the event of an acute, catastrophic 2nd stage failure to both my primary, secondary AND pony 2nd I'll surface breathing off the free-flowing reg.

Sounds simple enough ... have you ever tried it? It's not as easy in a real-life situation as the simulated exercise that you probably did in the pool.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tomboyy]

Is it possible you had your mind made up before you asked the question?