Fundies: Like the idea, but not the equipment requirements?

[NudeDiver]

Other than financial issues and time restraints, I can't imagine why taking extra courses would be perceived as a bad thing.

Unless you can see the value of diving like this and having this kind of training, it will never make sense.

Well, nothing like stating the obvious.

FWIW - I've seen the GUE guys in action - as recently as last night - and I, for one, am mightily impressed. Even watching a Fundamentals class in the pool, it simply looks like better (higher quality) training than PADI OW training.

But I'm still not willing to buy the gear to replace perfectly functional gear (split fin issues aside). Maybe one day - but certainly not any time soon.

 

[djanni]

I haven't quite reached 300 dives at this point and dive mostly in the Carribean and some off the Florida coast so that's my frame of reference here.

I whole-heartedly believe training is a good thing. When I see videos like "SparticleBrane's" and read comments like the one below I think holding motionless looks impressive.

snip..... If you haven't seen people like the folks who teach these classes in the water, you just don't have an image of how absolutely solid and stable someone can be in the water. I know I was absolutely floored, the first time I dove with someone with this kind of training, because I had never seen anything like him, and I knew instantly that these skills were something I wanted for myself..... snip.

Just to see if I could, there's been a time or two that I've tried to hold absolutely solid and stable (motionless) and it's really hard to do. I can hold steady enough to get a good close up picture every now and then.

This ability to remain motionless for several minutes is for what? If your not diving tight overhead environments or areas where's there's tons of silt what's it get you other than being able to say you can do it? Spending a lot of time hovering, solid and stable for several minutes, just isn't in any of my dive plans.

What I need is another Navigation course. The navigation training I got during PADI's AOW helped a little but I can still get lost. Thank god my wife/buddy is like a homing pigeon.

Training is good and training in the areas that'll be of benefit to you is worthy.

 

[TSandM]

Well, as somebody pointed out, you can borrow or rent the gear to take the class. Or if you don't want to, that's okay, too. I only started the thread to let people know there was a way to take a Fundies-type class without replacing their existing BC.

 

[TSandM]

Holding still? Holding still is cool for taking photographs. Sometimes I can sit and take four or five pictures of the same subject, without having to do any major rearranging of myself, and without disturbing the subject. That's pretty cool.

Holding still is great for descents and ascents. I can go down the anchor line and stay right next to, or across from my buddy. We don't lose each other, and since I dive in areas where the viz can be pretty bad, that's important.

Holding still is also good for posing as a model for my husband's pictures. It's good for sitting and observing animal behavior, like cleaning stations. It's nice if you are going to drop into a space between coral heads to look at something, and you don't want to do any damage to the structures around you. It's also super for drifting a wall -- you just sit in the water, facing the wall, and let the current carry you. You don't drive yourself toward the wall by finning to keep your balance. It's great for going down to look at something near or on the bottom, because you don't stir up anything beneath you that would affect the viz.

I don't know . . . I seem to find holding still very useful, and also a lot of fun.

 

[mikemill]

@TSandM: Thanks for explaining the difference between PPB and the buoyancy part of this class. I can definitely see the benefit in that regard.

@shoredivr: Thanks for that post. Seems that the secondary is only a guideline. Quick search seems to indicate that a 5' hose would be within the "acceptable" price range. And it is something I've been considering. After a few "hmmm you know we'd be awfully close with such a short hose" thoughts and what-if thought experiments.

Seems as though my sole problem might very well be resolved. If all I need to change is the hose length then the class has moved into my "gonna have to check it out" list. Seems most of the Essentials classes in CA are being held in SoCal. So I might wait to see if I get a job down in that area and if so move down there.

 

[djanni]

Holding still? snip... I don't know . . . I seem to find holding still very useful, and also a lot of fun.

Well, I've seen it called solid, stable, motionless and still and each conjers up a slightly different image. So I guess it's a matter of semantics.

I do the sort of holding still you referred to. I can't hover, solid and stable for several minutes at a time. I need to make small adjustments from time-to-time. Emphasis on "small" adjustments.

Happily... that's all I really need to be able to do.

 

[John_B]

As someone who has actually taken the Essentials class, I can tell you that non-split fins are required because one of the stated goals is to learn to do the standard kicks: frog, modified frog, back kicks and helicopter turns. Believe me, back kicks are tricky enough in Jetfins.

FWIW, other objectives of Essentials include buoyancy, trim, buddy awareness, detailed gas planning/rock bottom calculations, min deco, the basic six*, shooting a bag, blue water ascents, valve drills, toxing diver recovery, etc.

Buoyancy, trim, and non-silting kicks are critical to successfully mastering the other objectives since they will be done around 1 foot off the bottom, which has a way of highlighting loss of buoyancy control during, for example, an air share or even a mask remove/replace drill. And, of course, the camera doesn't lie.

Likewise, to do the drill where you guide your maskless buddy back to the line or entry point, or the drill doing the standard six minute ascent with a buddy on an air share while maintaining horizontal trim is not going to be comfortable (or even reasonable IMO) on a standard regulator/octo combination. A minimum of a five foot primary with a bungeed backup is going to be required to complete the skills and objectives of this class. I can tell you that I usually dive a five footer for single tank diving, but I was glad Jeff encouraged me to bring a seven footer for the class. My teammate used a five foot hose and at the end of the class wished he had also used a seven footer.

Regardless, I can tell you there is quite a bit to cover in a long weekend. I was glad to have a team member in the class who was as serious about learning in the class as I was, and went into it with commitment to learn and a great attitude.

John_B

* The basic six drills are: reg remove/replace, reg exchange, reg recovery (both reach and sweep), mask flood/clear, mask remove/replace, and the ubiquitous s-drill.

 

[LIVES4SHARKS]

I was very lucky to have had a mentor take me under his wing right out of my OW checkouts. He introduced me to streamlining my gear (no danglies) and understanding buoyancy, trim, and buoyancy control. Also the use of different kicks based on the environment that I am in.(Shhh I tasted the koolaid and lived to tell about it!) I am a long way from the GUE divers that I have had the great pleasure meeting in cave country. To watch a team enter the water at Orange Grove, watch them descend as a solid unit, able to task load with no movement in the water and then enter the cavern as a solid united team was amazing. I have worked dilligently in the pool to become a much better diver. When I dive open water, I feel much more in control, I don't silt up the bottom, or strike the reef with my fins, and I get more contact from marine animals since I am not propelling with my hands. The glide kick technique used in the frog kick for me has been much more comfortable and actually uses much less energy. When I have introduced it to other divers, they were amazed at how comfortable they were and actually used less gas.

I have been working hard preparing myself for fundies. I know it will be a class that I will have to work for, but the improvement in my skills is worth the effort. I was very lucky to be introduced to this type of diving early on, it has helped me alot with my advanced diving in both the OW and overhead settings.

Don't knock it till you try it! Thank you TSandM for sharing this. I think all new divers should understand there are alot of options to the way you dive out there. Why not dive well in the beginning instead of struggling to achieve that much later? Just a thought.


Carolyn:shark2:
PS: I have chondromalcia (very painful)...it affects the knee caps..and for me the frog kick and modified flutter have been much more comfortable than standard flutter kicking. I only use a full flutter kick when I have to work a current or catch up to a shark!

 

[fnfalman]

No, but the reefs are taking a beating.

How are the reefs taking a beating because of inline octo, short primary hose and air integrated computers?

Do these things magically make a diver's buoyancy control worse than a pressure gauge, depth gauge, bottom timer and slate?

Don't blame the diver's lack of skills on equipment.

 

[fnfalman]

When I dive open water, I feel much more in control, I don't silt up the bottom, or strike the reef with my fins, and I get more contact from marine animals since I am not propelling with my hands. The glide kick technique used in the frog kick for me has been much more comfortable and actually uses much less energy. When I have introduced it to other divers, they were amazed at how comfortable they were and actually used less gas.

I have been working hard preparing myself for fundies. I know it will be a class that I will have to work for, but the improvement in my skills is worth the effort. I was very lucky to be introduced to this type of diving early on, it has helped me alot with my advanced diving in both the OW and overhead settings.

Don't knock it till you try it! Thank you TSandM for sharing this. I think all new divers should understand there are alot of options to the way you dive out there. Why not dive well in the beginning instead of struggling to achieve that much later? Just a thought.

Totally agreed. HOWEVER, I do have an issue with the GUE/DIR gears. Teach me how to dive. Teach me proper finning techniques. Teach me how to establish buoyancy control.

But my using a dive computer has zero to do with kicking techniques and buoyancy control.

My clear mask has zero to do with kicking techniques and buoyancy control.

My colored fins has zero to do with gas calculations and dive plannings.