Dive Rite ABS plastic Back Plate

[mare63]

Hi all,

I was interested in buying a ABS BP, but it seems Kydex is better material !
Where could I buy a BP made of this material instead of just a plastic one ?
This would be used for warm water only

Thanks

 

[cool_hardware52]

Hi all,

I was interested in buying a ABS BP, but it seems Kydex is better material !
Where could I buy a BP made of this material instead of just a plastic one ?
This would be used for warm water only

Thanks

We have them. Look here.

https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?category=backplates

Tobin

 

[fnfalman]

Kydex is frequently used for handgun holsters and knife sheaths. In these apps the goods are frequently subjected to rough handling.

Tobin

I don't know much about diving but I do know something about guns and combat. ABS has been used to make gun stocks for decades now and I'd dare guess that gun stocks have been subjected to a lot more abuses than holsters and knife sheaths.

ABS will take impacts just fine (Steyr AUG body as an example). If it can take the impact of a buttstroke against somebody's helmet, it can take the impact of diving activities.

Not to knock on Kydex, but plastics are pretty much plastics. If you select the correct grades and have somebody that knows how to make good plastic, then you're good to go.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I don't know much about diving but I do know something about guns and combat. ABS has been used to make gun stocks for decades now and I'd dare guess that gun stocks have been subjected to a lot more abuses than holsters and knife sheaths.

ABS will take impacts just fine (Steyr AUG body as an example). If it can take the impact of a buttstroke against somebody's helmet, it can take the impact of diving activities.

Not to knock on Kydex, but plastics are pretty much plastics. If you select the correct grades and have somebody that knows how to make good plastic, then you're good to go.

Rubber modified ABS grades are more impact resistant than GP grades and are often used in applications such as power tool handles and guns stocks. Part design also plays a big part.

Notched Izod Impact resistance is the common means of quantifying the impact resistance of various plastic resins.

GP grades of ABS sheet has a Notched Izod Impact resistance of about 4.0 ft lbs/in and even the "Super High Impact" grades of ABS offer only about 8.0 ft lbs/in.

Kydex provides about 18 ft lbs/in Notched Izod Impact resistance, a 4.5 times greater resistance than the general purpose grades of ABS, and more than 2 twice the impact resistance of even the "Super High Impact" grades of ABS.

There are 1000's and 1000's of plastic resins and compounds available today, each with benefits and compromises for any application.

Plastics are not Plastics......

Tobin

 

[fnfalman]

Not to knock on Kydex, but plastics are pretty much plastics. If you select the correct grades and have somebody that knows how to make good plastic, then you're good to go.

There are 1000's and 1000's of plastic resins and compounds available today, each with benefits and compromises for any application.

Plastics are not Plastics......

Tobin

Methinks you've just said the same thing that I did.

But then I'm just a mere chemical engineer, what do I know?

 

[kidsdream]

Certainly plastics very greatly in performance attributes.

While testing/performance specs liked notched izod and flex modulus are truly indicative of certain strength/impact criteria, these test are typically completed on ASTM prepared samples.

In a BP products (as well as so many other commercial and consumers items), the failure is most frequently initiated at or near a hole or surface feature. These types of failure modes are not factored into the subject test requirements. So for me the biggest issues would be the manufacturing method and quality control attributes that the mounting or pass through holes are subject to.

Not to knock on Kydex, but plastics are pretty much plastics. If you select the correct grades and have somebody that knows how to make good plastic, then you're good to go.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Certainly plastics very greatly in performance attributes.

While testing/performance specs liked notched izod and flex modulus are truly indicative of certain strength/impact criteria, these test are typically completed on ASTM prepared samples.

In a BP products (as well as so many other commercial and consumers items), the failure is most frequently initiated at or near a hole or surface feature. These types of a failure modes are not factored into the subject test requirements.

That's exactly why all the loaded penetrations on our Kydex backplates are reinforced with 16 gauge Stainless Steel overlay.

Tobin

 

[kidsdream]

The nature of your reinforcement design is a much larger factor than ABS vs. Kydex. Without a doubt you plate is superior in every way (except for initial purchase price) over an ABS plate.

The bigger question for many should more likely be ALU vs. Kydex as a material for a lightweight BP. The Kydex solution is clearly elegant in both design and execution.

I used to own one but as I rarely used it I sold it (on SB) for more than I paid, now I just use a Hammerhead Alu plate for those time when I travel and weight is a factor.

That's exactly why all the loaded penetrations on our Kydex backplates are reinforced with 16 gauge Stainless Steel overlay.

Tobin

 

[fnfalman]

And of course, depending on the regularity of use and exposure to sunlight. Kydex, like all plastics, become degradable when exposed to UV. Yes, yes, there are dopants available to combat UV degradation, but it's something to keep in mind if one is a dive master whose work include daily equipment exposure to the sun.

I personally think that plastics are getting too carried away in usage. Plastics are usually the economical alternative to metal, and if there are no cost savings, then go with the metal. No strength issues, no corrosion issues and definitely no UV issues if one were to use an aluminum plate - assuming that weight saving is a concern hence the use of plastic backplate.

 

[cool_hardware52]

And of course, depending on the regularity of use and exposure to sunlight. Kydex, like all plastics, become degradable when exposed to UV. Yes, yes, there are dopants available to combat UV degradation, but it's something to keep in mind if one is a dive master whose work include daily equipment exposure to the sun.

If anybody has a Kydex back plate that fails due to UV exposure I'll replace it.

I personally think that plastics are getting too carried away in usage. Plastics are usually the economical alternative to metal, and if there are no cost savings, then go with the metal. No strength issues, no corrosion issues and definitely no UV issues if one were to use an aluminum plate.

This is just silly. Most of the gear we all use is non metallic, webbing, wings, exposure suits, fins, masks etc. Excessive UV exposure is not great for any of it. With reasonable care it lasts a long time. Any diver would be most fortunate to dive enough to wear out a kydex anything.

Do you care for all your gear EXCEPT your backplate?

Know where I can get an aluminum wing?


Gotta love you folks who know more about my design choices than I do.

Why Kydex?

1) Lighter than aluminum

2) Less negative than aluminum

3) Slightly flexible

4) No corrosion issues

Great strength is not required for backplates as the loads they see are quite small.
Anybody that's seen a Stainless STA bolted through a Alum back plate and left that way for a few months of marine use might think differently about corrosion.

Tobin