Deco with too less air, options from the book

[Rainer]

There is one thing I don't understand about RD. If you are spending about $20,000+ on Tec gear (see other thread here), and about $250 for a trimix fill, why try and save a few hundred bucks on a computer (or better yet, two) at the expense of extensive task loading and increased risk of human error? Isn't using personal arithmetic (with a huge amount of rounding up and down) rather than deco software and dive computers siding with Luddites? Everything I have read on RD admits it is not perfect for all scenarios, but works well in most scenarios.

What, spend $2000 on a VR3 and do the deco it recommends? No, thanks. Don't like the algo. Ditto for almost all dive computers. It's great that the X1 now runs something more akin to what some of us prefer, but I'm still not keen to let a computer dictate my deco without me also knowing what is needed. If I'm going to calculate that anyway, why do I need the computer? It's not a matter of saving money (that's just a perk). It's about staying engaged in my own dive to the point I can calculate my own deco. It's not brain science (what I do for a living). It's simple, simple math. It does require tracking some numbers and understanding some rules, but it's dirt simple. The hard part is learning to pay attention to your own diving. For some, that might be impossible. For most, it just takes practice. If all you ever do is follow your computer, sure, RD might seem like magic (or "gimmicky"). If you're already plugged into your dives, it's just a means to calculate deco given a set of parameters and a set of rules.

For those who want to learn about it, see the link I posted earlier. You aren't going to learn it on these threads.

 

[orange_diver]

There is one thing I don't understand about RD. If you are spending about $20,000+ on Tec gear (see other thread here), and about $250 for a trimix fill, why try and save a few hundred bucks on a computer (or better yet, two) at the expense of extensive task loading and increased risk of human error? Isn't using personal arithmetic (with a huge amount of rounding up and down) rather than deco software and dive computers siding with Luddites? Everything I have read on RD admits it is not perfect for all scenarios, but works well in most scenarios. Unless you're wedded to a particular philosophy "works well in most scenarios" is probably not what you want.

what is "perfect for all scenarios"? please tell me what that is and i'd gladly consider doing it.

"works well in most scenarios" tho, that's fine by me. most happens to be dives from 590' to recreational. and standard gases mean i don't have to constantly monkey around with a hundred different mixes and i know that if i have to go on a teammates long hose it has the same gas i do.

 

[JeffG]

There is one thing I don't understand about RD. If you are spending about $20,000+ on Tec gear (see other thread here), and about $250 for a trimix fill, why try and save a few hundred bucks on a computer (or better yet, two) at the expense of extensive task loading and increased risk of human error? Isn't using personal arithmetic (with a huge amount of rounding up and down) rather than deco software and dive computers siding with Luddites? Everything I have read on RD admits it is not perfect for all scenarios, but works well in most scenarios. Unless you're wedded to a particular philosophy "works well in most scenarios" is probably not what you want.

Wrong premise. Its not about saving money on a computer.

One aspect is about being proactive vs reactive. Do you know what your computer is going to say about your deco when you put you go an extra 20 ft deep or for 10 extra minutes?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I am finding this hilarious. Chatterhorn says the RD sounds like a gimmick. From what he said ( I'm a little drunk tonight so that must be why I find this so funny) is that he prefers to use a computer which can handle emergency contingencies better than his own brain. Apparently, he thinks along the same lines as me, he would rather trust his computer than try to perform depth averaging computations in his head. He has more time underwater than probably all the posters combined on this thread, yet his opinion doesn't seem to foster the respect that it deserves. I think it is very amusing.

For some reason, I keep getting the feeling that so many of the DIR divers on this board, spend an inordinate amount of time and energy managing and calculating their dive, perfecting their trim, micro managing their sac rate, practicing their kicks, worrying about what goes in what pocket, while some experienced people, are "doing stuff" underwater, they aren't even conciously thinking about any of the aforementioned details. They are comfortable delegating the mathematical calculations (like depth averaging, for example) to a computer. Certainly in a real emergency the computer does not get stressed out and stupid, as all divers will, to some extent, when the *hit hits the fan.

I'm sure many of these experienced divers who use a computer, have a very good understanding of the profile and they are using the computer as a sanity check for what they think their profile should be. They are not blindly following a computer and if it started to act up, they would become aware of it pretty quickly.

 

[orange_diver]

I am finding this hilarious. Chatterhorn says the RD sounds like a gimmick. From what he said ( I'm a little drunk tonight so that must be why I find this so funny) is that he prefers to use a computer which can handle emergency contingencies better than his own brain. Apparently, he thinks along the same lines as me, he would rather trust his computer than try to perform depth averaging computations in his head. He has more time underwater than probably all the posters combined on this thread, yet his opinion doesn't seem to foster the respect that it deserves. I think it is very amusing.

For some reason, I keep getting the feeling that so many of the DIR divers on this board, spend an inordinate amount of time and energy managing and calculating their dive, perfecting their trim, micro managing their sac rate, practicing their kicks, worrying about what goes in what pocket, while some experienced people, are "doing stuff" underwater, they aren't even conciously thinking about any of the aforementioned details. They are comfortable delegating the mathematical calculations (like depth averaging, for example) to a computer. Certainly in a real emergency the computer does not get stressed out and stupid, as all divers will, to some extent, when the *hit hits the fan.

I'm sure many of these experienced divers who use a computer, have a very good understanding of the profile and they are using the computer as a sanity check for what they think their profile should be. They are not blindly following a computer and if it started to act up, they would become aware of it pretty quickly.

please go back to my posts and let me know where i was disrespectful to Mr. Chatterton.

and btw, i would hope that all technical divers spend time and energy managing and calculating their dive, perfecting their trim, practicing their kicks, and worrying about what goes in what pocket.

i went with a bunch of DIR divers to the red sea for a week of glorious trimix wreck diving and not once did we spend more than a few minutes on our deco plans let alone talk about "sac rates". we did do a bunch on monkey diving tho. believe it or not we can have fun too.

 

[Bismark]

I am finding this hilarious. Chatterhorn says the RD sounds like a gimmick. From what he said ( I'm a little drunk tonight so that must be why I find this so funny) is that he prefers to use a computer which can handle emergency contingencies better than his own brain. Apparently, he thinks along the same lines as me, he would rather trust his computer than try to perform depth averaging computations in his head. He has more time underwater than probably all the posters combined on this thread, yet his opinion doesn't seem to foster the respect that it deserves. I think it is very amusing.

For some reason, I keep getting the feeling that so many of the DIR divers on this board, spend an inordinate amount of time and energy managing and calculating their dive, perfecting their trim, micro managing their sac rate, practicing their kicks, worrying about what goes in what pocket, while some experienced people, are "doing stuff" underwater, they aren't even conciously thinking about any of the aforementioned details. They are comfortable delegating the mathematical calculations (like depth averaging, for example) to a computer. Certainly in a real emergency the computer does not get stressed out and stupid, as all divers will, to some extent, when the *hit hits the fan.

I'm sure many of these experienced divers who use a computer, have a very good understanding of the profile and they are using the computer as a sanity check for what they think their profile should be. They are not blindly following a computer and if it started to act up, they would become aware of it pretty quickly.

From reading your post I would suggest that you stop drinking. Looks like it is a problem.

 

[orange_diver]

I am finding this hilarious. Chatterhorn says the RD sounds like a gimmick. From what he said ( I'm a little drunk tonight so that must be why I find this so funny) is that he prefers to use a computer which can handle emergency contingencies better than his own brain. Apparently, he thinks along the same lines as me, he would rather trust his computer than try to perform depth averaging computations in his head. He has more time underwater than probably all the posters combined on this thread, yet his opinion doesn't seem to foster the respect that it deserves. I think it is very amusing.

oh and btw, his name is Chatterton.

 

[Bismark]

oh and btw, his name is Chatterton.

I never noticed that but this is absolutely the funniest thing I have read today. No offense to JC but I guess this kind of supports my earlier post. I am still laughing out loud. "Hi, my name is dumpster diver and I admit I have a problem"........too funny.

 

[seaducer]

changes are easy to make underwater if you were at depth for shorter or longer periods of time, because of the simple math formula we use. changes are made in your head to the running tally of stops/times you need to do.

Forgive a silly question but, doing math underwater because you changed your profile, are you ever worried about narcosis affecting your calculations?

maybe it is because I am already math phobic but that would cause me some anxiety, that narcosis could affect me, or I could just screw it up with a clear head. Perhaps the "simple math formula" is really simple?

 

[orange_diver]

Forgive a silly question but, doing math underwater because you changed your profile, are you ever worried about narcosis affecting your calculations?

maybe it is because I am already math phobic but that would cause me some anxiety, that narcosis could affect me, or I could just screw it up with a clear head. Perhaps the "simple math formula" is really simple?

not only is it simple, but we are on trimix for any dives that would present potential narcosis problems, which gives us very clear heads. RD shouldn't be done on deep air, where you are absolutely right, things could go sideways...