Dark Narc or Why I don’t dive air to 100ft

[piikki]

Also, I become somewhat useless. I get really... follow-y. Oh I guess we're going this way now. Oh, I guess we're flying a bag now. I'm there, but not REALLY there. The muscle memory instinctive responses (like rapid light flashing = donate long hose) probably still work rather quickly. But give me a task and I'm going to be overly focused on that task.

I the looong debrief we had, I asked my buddy about this. I was leading and she was following – the nuttiness that lead nowhere. I was hyper-alert, she was at first content that she could just follow, then she became angry because she thought I had made a decision to follow the bottom along the slope instead of climbing to the slope. She was anxious but she still just followed because to her I appeared in control. She was uncharacteristically ‘follow-y’.

In our normal state we consult each others a lot. If something appears odd, we are quick to point errors, sometimes too quick. One of our weaknesses is not sticking to clear leader roles, we often co-lead.

The truth is that one of the turning points in this mess probably was when I finally was able to admit to my buddy that I was ^%$*ed up. It must have acted as some sort of pressure reliever for me, and it jolted her out of her docile state. Right after that, for some reason, we finally did what we should have done several minutes ago. It shifted some responsibility that I had been so wound up with, and I feel that maybe it freed up a couple of brain cells momentarily. Luckily it resulted in the right action.

 

[RiverRat]

A 25/25 fill in my double 85s is about $36. I don't particularly LIKE paying $36 for one dive (plus gas for the boat, or charter fees) but that dive is so much more pleasant, and I remember it so much more clearly, that it's worth it to do from time to time. I don't dive that deep, or use helium, that often.

Damn I wish I had it that good! My local shop is a ripoff! I had to bail on my Trimix class this year due to illness but my buddies keep telling me what the shop is charging. On a side note, what is the normal cost of Helium say by the cuft. ?

 

[piikki]

Damn I wish I had it that good! My local shop is a ripoff! I had to bail on my Trimix class this year due to illness but my buddies keep telling me what the shop is charging. On a side note, what is the normal cost of Helium say by the cuft. ?

I don't even dare to think because I pay $30 to fill my doubles with nitrox which has only recently become more available. It is sometimes hard to swallow for these 30ft (100ft...) skills dives when one brings the tanks back to the shop half full.

 

[FritzCat66]

Ever done a whippet? The first time I ever got narced, I recognized the feeling right away: feels very similar to what one feels like after taking a hit of nitrous oxide.

Makes me wonder if you could "practice" dealing with narcosis on land by hitting a whippet and trying some sort of task, like tying a certain knot or something.

Dunno, but it might be fun trying. If nothing else, I think it helps the narcosis situation because afterward the feeling isn't such an unfamiliar experience, thus reducing anxiety. I have never felt anxious when narced - it's a strange trip all right, but I've certainly had stranger...

>*< Fritz

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I agree; the cure for narcosis is to ascend. But ascending along the bottom contour is preferable to ascending into green water, especially if poor viz is playing a significant role in the narcosis, as it often does here. If I'm delusional and freaked, the LAST thing I want to is to deprive myself of the only orientation I have. Swimming upslope is the answer, but even better is not getting that narced. Once I found out what my issues were, I don't go to 100 fsw in very poor viz, and I never go below that without helium in the breathing mixture.

You can argue that recreational helium is ridiculous. I argue that depths of 100 fsw or below in Puget Sound, for me, are unsafe unless my head is clear.

Being disoriented on an ascent might be scary, but it should not be that dangerous for a pair of competent divers. I get the feeling that the perceived desperation was closely associated with the reluctance to make a mid water ascent. That should have been the immediate and correct solution to hallucinations (in my mind). Getting a little disoriented on the ascent is not particularly dangerous, but flailing around on the bottom, seeing things, being unable to effectively monitor depth or follow a compass heading, inability to effective regulate buoyancy control devices(s) are all symptoms of a diver who is very vulnerable and not in control. Continuing to absorb additional nitrogen and expend more air at depth is NOT helpful. Think what would have happened if one of them would have become tangled in fishing line and/or had a free flow. It would have likely been more than they could handle.

Anyone diving to 100 feet should be able to make a solo ascent in bad vis without a whole lot of trouble. The diver needs to be absolutely confident of this. The whole premise of open water recreational diving is that somebody can &#8220;Run for the surface&#8221; in 2 minutes or so, if things get really bad. Of course this is more of a last resort, but it needs to be in the back of the diver&#8217;s mind, even when narced.

 

[eponym]

A rebreather instructor of my aquaintance once outlined to me a scenario for converying to you just how much you're affected by high nitrogen pressure at depth . . .

Take candidate deep on trimix, heavy on the helium; pause, check-in, and relax at, say, 120fsw.

Hand candidate a second-stage delivering normal air.

He said it takes only a few breaths of air before the candidate feels the narc blossom and expand.

Would like to try that, as I'm already convinced I am often mildly narked below 100fsw, and darkly if I'm overworking in an attempt to keep up with a buddy who's a rocketship. CO2 buildup, don't you know . . .

-Bryan

 

[TSandM]

Getting a little disoriented on the ascent is not particularly dangerous

I'm sorry, but this is the statement of someone who has never been disoriented in poor visibility in midwater. It can be quite dangerous. I know.

The whole problem is that you're narced; to begin with, you don't know that's what the problem IS. Once you figure it out, ascending is the right thing to do, but how far are you going to have to go up before your head clears, and what is going to happen to you in the meantime? The scary thing about this story is that BOTH divers were narced, so one is doing things that don't make any sense, and the other one isn't doing anything about it. I'm still not convinced that ascending out of reference to the bottom is going to improve matters much, especially if one diver is hallucinating and disoriented, and the other one is too impaired to intervene if the first one starts doing somersaults or gets feet up and heads for the surface.

 

[piikki]

Being disoriented on an ascent might be scary, but it should not be that dangerous for a pair of competent divers. I get the feeling that the perceived desperation was closely associated with the reluctance to make a mid water ascent.

Most of us in this thread acknowledge that even competent divers can become extremely incompetent when affected by narcosis. I don&#8217;t actually care if you wish to dig your heels in with your interpretation because I&#8217;ll happily be incompetent but unhurt diver for awhile still.

In my opinion the over the top desperation about everything was directly linked to the narcosis. I would have had no problem making the ascent from 75 ft once my head cleared. The muck layer was still above me at that point. Leaving aside how irrational my analysis was at 100ft, I know of very few divers who&#8217;d wish to risk out of control ascent from 100ft when they truly believe that it is in the cards.

flailing around on the bottom, seeing things, being unable to effectively monitor depth or follow a compass heading, inability to effective regulate buoyancy control devices(s) are all symptoms of a diver who is very vulnerable and not in control. Continuing to absorb additional nitrogen and expend more air at depth is NOT helpful. Think what would have happened if one of them would have become tangled in fishing line and/or had a free flow. It would have likely been more than they could handle.

You are jumping into conclusions. While I agree with a lot what you say about narcosis in general, you also make it sound like this relates to the dive in question. While I was freaking out about the ascent (for several reasons I actually mulled through), I can tell you that neither of us eg never touched the bottom. Our computer profiles are identical and smooth, no jerking around. We had absolutely no problems following a compass heading, we just did not even think of looking at the compass. Once we did, everything made sense. I was obsessively testing myself, buddy, and the equipment. This could have easily lead to further ridiculous incidents but I am dead-sure both of us were still in condition to perform emergency skills like air shares, bag-shoots, valve shut downs etc. I am one of those weirdo divers who practice all the time. We had just done skills for 30 minutes. I am not going to swear but my judgment even at the most impaired was that I trusted us to pull the basic life-saving stuff off, albeit slowed down and ugly. If I believed not, I would have started coming up come what may. I never got the &#8220;I will die here&#8221; stuff. If I felt it was coming to that, it would have been bat out of hell.

There is no reason to make this stupid story into something that it is not. It is not supposed to be about how skilled or non-skilled diver I am. It is how incredibly, universally stupid narcosis can make anyone. It&#8217;s about how not to get into that situation.

I agree that ascending is the answer to narcosis but there might me some cases where even a rec diver cannot just blow to the surface or where it might not be the immediate answer. I would not do it in some other rec places I dive either (eg I'd use couple of minutes to get back to down line rather than be torn down current in midwater etc).

Anyone diving to 100 feet should be able to make a solo ascent in bad vis without a whole lot of trouble. The diver needs to be absolutely confident of this. The whole premise of open water recreational diving is that somebody can &#8220;Run for the surface&#8221; in 2 minutes or so, if things get really bad. Of course this is more of a last resort, but it needs to be in the back of the diver&#8217;s mind, even when narced.

Next time I meet a diver who requires me to be absolutely confident about anything when I get narced I will probably choose to say No Thanks. I&#8217;ve gained enough respect for narcosis to fall for that.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Apparently my tone is not appreciated, but I am pretty firm in my belief that the two divers were "in over their head". It is not my intent to label either diver as incompetent. I think it is great that you put the thread up. You don't sound like you will be doing similar dives in the near future, and it serves as an important reminder to me about how narced a diver can get at a depth that I would consider to be deep only for freedivers.

As for TSM's comments that I've never been disoriented, well that's not true. I've had reverse blocks in one ear that were so severe that I was vomiting and my vision was spinning completely all this while I was solo at night and a long swim from shore.... That was a memorable dive that kinda sucked for a while until I got my ears squared away. LOL..

As for the specific dive in question, the divers could have ascended to a shallower depth and then simply swam what ever the appropriate compass heading was toward shore while maintaining a uniform depth in the water column. Maybe there was no absolute need to ascend completely, especially if the symptoms abated quickly in shallower water. I also agree that some recreational dives (such as an anchored wreck dive ) might be really screwed up if the diver ascends anywhere, but halllucinations would be enough to send me UP.

 

[battles2a5]

CO2 buildup, don't you know . . .

I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned CO2 build-up. Every time I have been "dark narc'ed" I suspect CO2 involvement. Perfect example, working hard on one of my first cave dives in high flow. At around 100ffw and 30 minutes into the dive I felt a dark narc coming on and as soon as I turned the dive it dissapated. I didn't change depth or conditions, just turned the dive and relaxed in the flow on the way out. Now if I feel it coming on, I'll slow down, take a few breaths and it will clear up. I have always felt that CO2 has a lot more to do with narcosis at air/nitrox depths than nitrogen, for me anyways.

Poor conditions usually involve more gear, more anxiety, or more work; all of which can lead to an increase in CO2 and worsen the narcosis. Just my theory on the matter.