A question about knots... (figure 8 > bowline)

[DHMO Diver]

Clay Jar

You can splice braided line.

The simple "single" braid is eye sploced by forming a bight and feeding the bitter end up through the center of the braid. A hollow fid helps. The standing part acts like a chinese finger trap and holds the splice together.

Double braid (sailing sheets, halyards, etc) can also be spliced but is somewhat more complicated. I don't have a diagram, but look at Samson

 

[Sideband]

So, I'm hanging from a cliff 800 ft off the ground; my right hand is engaged in a self-belay and I have to tie myself off to a piton on the cliff with my left hand and another rope. The rope is 1/2" in diameter. How much time does it take to calculate 12xcircumference and can I do that, plus tie the knot correctly, before I physically exhaust myself and fall?

I don't know how long or if you can, but I'd grab a 3' runner and 2 carabiners and clip in in under 10 seconds while I watch you attempt to tie strange knots one handed. That probably isn't the best place for a bowline. But then this is a scuba forum and not a climbing one.

 

[mike_s]

After doing a search to see what kind of knots everyone is using it appears a lot of people still use the bowline. My only real experience with knots is boy scouts as a kid and the fire service. In the fire service we stopped using the bowline a while ago due to it's tendancy to slip in synthetic ropes.

IF you're worried about slippage, or using a bowline with a heavy load, try a 'bowline with a bight'. Never had a problem with it.

BTW.... I use a Bowline for the loop on the end of my reel.

Why are you hanging from a cliff in SCUBA gear?

It's the new PADI Cliff Diver Specialty

 

[Charlie99]

The simple "single" braid is eye sploced by forming a bight and feeding the bitter end up through the center of the braid. A hollow fid helps. The standing part acts like a chinese finger trap and holds the splice together.

Looping the bitter end around the standing part in a half hitch is a simple improvement that dramatically improves the security of this simple "stuff it back into itself" splice.

With the simple splice, a repeated working of the line such that you bitter end side of the loop gets an extra pull will work the splice apart. The extra half hitch makes this much less likely.

 

[muddiver]

I use to splice braded line. Now I just avoid it because it's such a pain.

 

[T23]

I know we all have needs/reasons to braid rope on occasion. One word of caution in so doing as it is something I learned a long time ago the hard way...

Don't expect the full load rating of the rope (i.e material type and diameter) to apply after you have modified it with braiding. This is also a good reason to take the time to learn proper knots as many of the home brewed knots will also decrease the working load rating. Proper knots will not. Hmm, proper knots will not... is that a double negative?

 

[Lead_carrier]

Why are you hanging from a cliff in SCUBA gear?

What????:11: You missed the new specialty course? Cliff diving? For shame muddiver..

 

[gcbryan]

I know we all have needs/reasons to braid rope on occasion. One word of caution in so doing as it is something I learned a long time ago the hard way...

Don't expect the full load rating of the rope (i.e material type and diameter) to apply after you have modified it with braiding. This is also a good reason to take the time to learn proper knots as many of the home brewed knots will also decrease the working load rating. Proper knots will not. Hmm, proper knots will not... is that a double negative?

All knots will less the strength of the rope...some more so than others.

 

[T23]

gcbryan,

Thanks, good catch! I got hung up on the double negative thing and wandered away from finishing my thought and sentence!

You are absolutely correct. All knots will lower the breaking strength of rope. How much the breaking strength will be lowered varies based upon the type of knot. Climbers and rescue organizations in particular have studied knot performance. These studies have also shown that two knots of the same type can yield different breaking strengths, i.e. one tied poorly vs. one tied properly.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I use the bow line all the time. I use to work on a boat and it was one of the few knots the Captain would allow. Everyone one of my spools and reels has a bow line at the end, topped off with a 'woody' for easy removal.