A question about knots... (figure 8 > bowline)

[StreetDoctor]

After doing a search to see what kind of knots everyone is using it appears a lot of people still use the bowline. My only real experience with knots is boy scouts as a kid and the fire service. In the fire service we stopped using the bowline a while ago due to it's tendancy to slip in synthetic ropes. One thing that suprised me here is we replaced it with the figure 8 (whether it's a figure 8 on a bite, follow-through, etc) but I haven't found a single thread where anyone is talks about using this knot in SCUBA applications. Any particular reason? I have a loop with a figure 8 on a bite on my reel and I use figure 8's in bungee as stops for my compass.

 

[ClayJar]

I *highly* (very highly) recommend Animated Knots by Grog for scuba divers (and others) interested in knots. The stepwise photos and animations are very informative, as is the commentary.

On of the things that enlightened me was that the clove hitch that they had taught us in some of my classes is actually quite a poor knot to use for almost anything. It slips, *and* it can bind, too. Round turns with half hitches are much more stable and useful, and they're not at all hard to tie.

 

[rktman26]

You can't beat animatedknots.com

 

[ClayJar]

It seems that most knots are less stable in synthetic rope. (In that annoying loosely-braided yellow poly, is *anything* stable other than a big ball of melted plastic? :biggrin The bowline does have a tendency to shake loose, but a stopper knot (or at least a half hitch or two) on the bitter end (tied to the loop) seems quite capable of handling that.

The various figure eight derivations are easy and useful, and there are quite a few of them for various applications. (I learned the trucker's hitch the other day. Never used it before, but I had the opportunity to use it. :biggrin

 

[T23]

One of the biggest problems I see is that many people learn to tie and use a variety of knots like at the animated site linked above. What is often lacking is an understanding of what the purpose of that particular knot is intended to be.

A clove hitch can be effective and secure when used properly such as in lashing timbers. If a clove is slipping which can happen on smooth round poles a good alternative is a constrictor knot, though once a load is applied it can be a real devil to undue.

Figure 8 follow-thru is used for climbing and is considered a very safe knot esp when lifting or carrying a person. The bowline can be extremely useful for self rescue in an emergency as it is one of the few safe and effective knots that can be tied with one hand.

A bowline can have some limited slip that is why the length of the free end is recommended to be 12 times the circumference of the rope. In some applications it is not desired to have that much slack lying about.

Certainly a figure 8 follow-thru is a safe and secure knot to use on a reel. Not very likely that it will become undone. The only drawback, in my opinion, with a figure 8 follow-thru is that it takes time to tie it properly. When speed to secure or unsecure is a consideration it is likely most people will choose a different knot.

 

[lmorin]

......The bowline can be extremely useful for self rescue in an emergency as it is one of the few safe and effective knots that can be tied with one hand.

A bowline can have some limited slip that is why the length of the free end is recommended to be 12 times the circumference of the rope.....

So, I'm hanging from a cliff 800 ft off the ground; my right hand is engaged in a self-belay and I have to tie myself off to a piton on the cliff with my left hand and another rope. The rope is 1/2" in diameter. How much time does it take to calculate 12xcircumference and can I do that, plus tie the knot correctly, before I physically exhaust myself and fall?

 

[muddiver]

Some divers advance past the simple knot stage and we splice eyes and rings in the rope instead of relying on a knot. Then you just clip it with a handy-dandy snap bolt.

 

[muddiver]

So, I'm hanging from a cliff 800 ft off the ground; my right hand is engaged in a self-belay and I have to tie myself off to a piton on the cliff with my left hand and another rope. The rope is 1/2" in diameter. How much time does it take to calculate 12xcircumference and can I do that, plus tie the knot correctly, before I physically exhaust myself and fall?

Why are you hanging from a cliff in SCUBA gear?

 

[ClayJar]

Some divers advance past the simple knot stage and we splice eyes and rings in the rope instead of relying on a knot. Then you just clip it with a handy-dandy snap bolt.

I know how to splice twisted rope, but do you also splice braided line? (I've never learned that one.)

Why are you hanging from a cliff in SCUBA gear?

Didn't listen to the instructions for the giant stride. I bet he bunny-hopped it.

 

[nereas]

I use figure-8s as end-knots, when I need them. An example is to secure a slip knot for the cord on a DPV.

I prefer simple overhand hitches, a loop formed by bending back the end of a line, and then making an eyelet with the end using an overhand turn of the knot into a loop. These are quite secure. You can even thread them, by first turning a loose overhand knot in a line, then threading the end of the line through a metal eyelet, then threading this through the overhand fold of the loose knot just like you would a bowline (the rabbit then going into the hole, around the bush, and then back out of the hole).

So those are the 3 knots that I use the most:

1) the slip knot;
2) the figure 8 knot; and
3) the threaded overhand eyelet.