How common is this?

[MauiScubaSteve]

There are numerous road signs along the way that say "caution" low pay ahead.

When I went "Pro" (spring '01) the course included a discussion about the industry average instructor income being between $21-$24K annually. My first 2 paid days were with a "guided" 6-pack operation out of Key Largo, and the captain and I split over $100 in tips both days.

Having spent the prior year as a Carmel Valley golf resort bartender (~$50K, a third in tips), I knew then I would be able to scratch out a meager living in Hawaii, where all dive boats are "guided" operations. After a few years as an independent/contract/part time instructor I took on the role of "senior instructor" at a whopping $1,900/month salary; exactly as predicted and expected. The small tips almost covered my car insurance (liability only), computers (built my own) and camera equipment (eBay).

When I decided to become an instructor ('97), I was working as a cabana boy, watching the resort instructors pocket $100-$200 cash per day just for the pictures they took of their Intro divers, as well as significant tips. Those kind of resort operations rarely hire green instructors, as few green instructors could handle the job, but as soon as I could I made the resort move.

Between those cabana boy days and my first resort instructor job, PADI took a stronger stand on the Intro photo gig, and the cost of living skyrocketed. Gas prices are 3 times '02 prices, and the room I rent has gone from $700/mo + utilities (~$75/mo) to $1000 + ~$200. How much has dive "Pro" pay gone up in the last ten years? Depending on your perspective dive pay has actually gone down.

Just as in the restaurant industry there are operations where tipping is not part of the business model and there are operations where tipping IS part of the business model. As a consumer, your responsibility is to know what kind of business you are patronizing. A quarry LDS in Indiana paying instructors $24K might not be a tipping business model. Many dive operations in popular dive destinations are some level of tipped business model.

I'm not saying roto-tilling zero to hero's monkey-doing skills on their knees HAVE to be tipped, but I am saying anyone posting absolutes like "instructors are professionals and professionals don't get tipped" or "you made a bad career choice" is very likely an ignorant pot-stirring scrooge!

The only way to keep capable workers is to pay them a "living wage". The dive industry has not been doing that for years and the results are easy to see!

 

[divebunny13]

I am a professional instructor in the Bahamas. I found a job that includes my room, board, and a salary, plus tips. I make almost as much in tips as I do in salary and my salary is not insignificant.

If you are thinking about getting into the dive business for the money, then don't. If you want a job that is fun, rewarding and won't give you a stress heart attack at 40, then this is the job for you.

 

[Doubler]

Then find a job where you can make a living. Sounds harsh but it is true. I don't get tipped at my job and I don't expect to tip professionals. By the way do you tip at McDonalds they make far less money.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

BTW - college professorship - low paying stuff.

My father supported a family of 5 on professor pay

I Yahoo'd "What is the starting pay for a college professor?"

Beginning salaries vary considerably:

Assuming tenure-track, degree in hand, in the humanities, hired in as assistant professor at a 4 year institution, then anywhere from 35-50 K.

Assuming tenure-track, degree in hand, in the sciences, hired in as assistant professor at a 4 year institution, then anywhere from 40-60K.

Assuming tenure-track, degree in hand, in business, hired in as assistant professor at a 4 year institution, then anywhere from 70-150K.

My math indicates an entry level dive instructor would need $1,000/month in tips to equal the second lowest paying profession in the world.

 

[The Logic Theorist]

Between those cabana boy days and my first resort instructor job, PADI took a stronger stand on the Intro photo gig, and the cost of living skyrocketed. Gas prices are 3 times '02 prices, and the room I rent has gone from $700/mo + utilities (~$75/mo) to $1000 + ~$200. How much has dive "Pro" pay gone up in the last ten years? Depending on your perspective dive pay has actually gone down.

Just as in the restaurant industry there are operations where tipping is not part of the business model and there are operations where tipping IS part of the business model. As a consumer, your responsibility is to know what kind of business you are patronizing. A quarry LDS in Indiana paying instructors $24K might not be a tipping business model. Many dive operations in popular dive destinations are some level of tipped business model.

I live in Washington, DC, which is far from a cheap place to live as well. I've lived here and made ends meet on $24k/yr with NO tips. It took making a lot of really hard decisions about my lifestyle and what was important, but I sucked it up and did it. (Thankfully I make a good bit more than that now.)

You're saying your cost of living has gone up and your salary hasn't raised to match it? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but EVERYONE's cost of living has gone up, and almost NO ONE's compensation has raised proportionally. We are all in the same boat, and seeing you say that because you're going through a bit of a pinch over the past couple of years means we all owe you something is making my eyes glaze over red and smoke come pouring out of my ears. There is absolutely nothing more off putting than someone walking around with a sense of entitlement.

A tip, also called a gratuity, is optional in every transaction, including those that we've come to think of as required such as wait staff. It's given to someone who has engendered in me a sense of gratitude.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I don't expect to tip professionals.

2. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.

By that definition there are many, many, many tipped employees who are professionals, and most of them make more than the average dive instructor. Since I am never going to service the CBD's posting on this thread, I am not worried about their skin-flint ways. The lurkers who only knew what the skin-flints preach are the ones I'm speaking to, and the prospective dive Pro's are getting a good education from you CBD's as well.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Then find a job where you can make a living.

That might result in inexperienced live at home kids filling the roles of dive pro's; oh wait a minute, it already has! :11:

 

[Mr.X]

My father supported a family of 5 on professor pay

I Yahoo'd "What is the starting pay for a college professor?"

My math indicates an entry level dive instructor would need $1,000/month in tips to equal the second lowest paying profession in the world.

Gadzooks dude...whining. You seem to have the intellectual horsepower to move on, make informed choices - or at the very least innovate and provide internet citations? Come on', you now know this biz. pays for ____t. On that note, I now worry about friends who are still in this field trying to eke out a living, while getting older and saving as much as the proverbial grasshopper from Aesops. These now graying, formerly sporty dudes are headed on a collision course with time, health and with jack to retire on. This also holds true for a few women instructor I know too. In the end, they won't have much other than a passport filled with stamps, a car, some good stories to share at a moderately priced restaurant and some fond remembrances of when I was "younger".

Sure, being a SKuba Instructor gives us benefits ranging from lifestyle, to perks only a male brain can imagine. That being said, this ____t gets old and can never offer a comfortable lifestyle for a family of four, or real security. In short, Skuba instructing is a tough gig. You do it cause you love it. If you love comfort and want a family you find something else on the side.

Additionally, I was recently offered a gig as a 'perfesser' at a prestigious Univ. The pay was laughable and I turned it down. Who needs the crud of the tenure track?

X

 

[aascubagirl]

Today I actually made some phone calls and attempted to get an idea of what instructors make, because obviously since any person will have bills to pay, salary is a concern whether someone wants to admit it or not. All I have to say is wow. I was told that in Key Largo at least, typically you're given a salary of $1,500 per month plus tips. Ok, here's the big issue I have with this. In Key Largo, they're charging ****ing $500 per person for a class, and if you're on salary, they can work you as much as they damn well please and you're getting table scraps while they're raking on a hell of a lot of money. I don't know if it's like this everywhere, I would assume not, but I have to say I'm simply amazed that some resorts will take advantage of their employees that much.

Is it normal to get paid salary or is it more typical to get paid per class? I would think it would be a lot more fair to get paid for how much you work, instead of a flat rate which sucks to begin with, or at least something along those lines. I'm aware life isn't fair, but there's a difference between life and ridiculous; I think this is the latter.

After finding that out, I'm half-tempted to just do Divemaster for my own knowledge and leave it at that. It's in someone else's signature on here, but as a professional, one should be expected to be paid as such. I don't see why anyone would work for a dive shop under those conditions when, strictly speaking from economics, if you wanted to be an instructor you could at least make a decent amount of money on the side (supplemented by another job since obviously if you're an independent then you won't have a steady flow of business which you may not have anyway in a dive shop) even when the cost of renting a classroom or pool is taken into account. And ironically, you could avoid the cost of renting a pool simply by teaching non-Open Water classes since OW is the only one that requires a pool to the best of my knowledge.

I dunno, there's not much of a point to this thread other than to rant at how ridiculous an instructor's pay is considering how ridiculously overpriced the classes are in Key Largo. I'll definitely be an independent instructor if I ever do decide to invest the time in it....I'm surprised to find something that pays even more poorly than being a paramedic but I'd say dive instructor qualifies.

Jumping in here to let you know that the VAST majority of dive shop owners are absolutely not raking it in at the expense of their poorly paid instructors. As many have already mentioned, we don't get into the business of diving for the pay but for the love of the sport.

You shouldn't characterize the dive shop owner as unfair or unethical because quite simply, he's barely making it as well.

He (or she) is not taking advantage of the instructor as you state - after subtracting all the overhead that goes into running a dive business, I'd venture a guess that the instructor is getting paid what the dive shop owner can afford to pay and still stay in business. And $500 for an open water certification is not ridiculously overpriced - not when the student is being trained to operate equipment in an underwater environment with a never-ending potential for operator-error, mishap and harm and especially when the instructor and/or dive shop is held legally responsible for your future safety.

Yes...we all teach scuba for the love of it. As far as the tipping discussion goes...well, tipping instructors varies according to location. While I chose to teach scuba and get poorly paid for it because I want to live in paradise, tipping is generally a part of the dive culture where I live and teach. And while my students/divers shouldn't be expected to subsidize my poor vocational choice, showing their appreciation for a great experience via tip is a norm over here and is ALWAYS greatly greatly appreciated and never taken for granted.

And I do work extra hard for my divers to try and earn their tip so that I can pay my electric bill or buy groceries. Does that make me less of a professional or not even a professional as some have implied? Well, I guess that is a matter of opinion.

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

Get off your snobby horse. A professional is someone who engages in an activity for pay. PERIOD.

Nah, there's another meaning of the word "professional". That's what Thal was talking about. I'm not going to give you the entire etymology of the word, but it comes from the notion that certain occupations "profess" to a way of doing their work above and beyond what is contracted for - that there are obligations to your profession, not just to your employer.

By this definition not all occupations are professions. Teaching is considered to be a profession, and thus they have a canon of obligations that exceed the contract in front of them, and that they try not to violate those duties. If you believe that dive instructors are teaching professionals, in this context, it means you believe that they are more than just "someone who engages in an activity for pay. PERIOD."

But of course, each dive instructor is free to believe that they are not professionals, and in fact, they are free to view their jobs as monkeys who dance whenever someone throws a coin in their cup. (No offense to the dancing monkeys) In this view, their only obligation is to do what they are legally bound to do under any given contract they happen to be working under.

On a personal note, I understand that the world is imperfect, and sometimes the hard economics of life make one compromise in what they believe. But the ideal, what dive instructors should shoot for, in my opinion, is to be professionals in the sense of the word that Thal is using. That should be the goal, even if not everyone is there yet.

Pshew, that was a lot to say just to explain that there is another connotation for the word "professional" than just someone who engages in an activity for pay.