Missing Divers - Komodo National Park

[Wayan]

So? You appear to believe that her function should have been that of a lifeguard. I think she's just a guide. On top of that they apparently had whistles, and at least 1 sausage. I personally think that EVERY diver in the group should have had their own whistles, and decent sausages. Why is this the responsibilty of the dive op to ensure, and not the divers themselves?

I think Bob just summed it up very well.

Good points, we were not there and probably will never know the true details of what happened. I live in Bali and still hear different versions of what did and did not happen.

There obviously were errors of judgment etc on a lot of people involved whether they were searchers/the actual divers/the boat driver and staff.

However we fool ourselves if we think the Dive staff/guides will be the only person in the water that will save us, yes they have a duty of care but so we do we to ourselves and our fellow dive buddies which why we should have at a minimum a torch, mirror, safety sausage and whistle. You never know maybe it is the DM/Guide etc that gets into trouble or we get separated from the group.

So if we personally do not have the equipment who's fault is that......the individuals....? The Operators.....? Both....? Depends on the briefing....?

Maybe Self rescue is something that needs to be more adequately taught/emphasized by all the dive schools.

 

[Kim]

You never know maybe it is the DM/Guide etc that gets into trouble or we get separated from the group.

I actually experienced this in Thailand when the guide's first stage failed. We had only just decended so we sent him back up straight away. We made our own dive. We ALL had our own safety equipment - whistles, SMBs (mine is 7ft...), torches, strobes from the cameras.

We had a great dive.

All this hand holding is getting worse every year though. This year I couldn't believe the "rules" I was asked to follow. I don't pay good money to be babysat like some rookie OW diver with less than 20 dives, and no business being on these sites in the first place.

 

[DandyDon]

Welcome back iSTRONG....

Uh, it's a discussion board in a learning environment; you expected more? Well, if you have anything reasonable to contribute, please do.

There have been many disagreements over some information pieces, all of which came from news sources which are at best questionable. All in all, it sounds like adventure diving with a minimum of the safety support we would like to expect in more familiar waters closer to the US. Also sounds like great fun, but it might take me two trips to get all my personal safety gear onboard. I do happen to have a couple of portable, "waterproof" Marine VFH I bought years ago for less than the same model cost now like this one when I felt a little uneasy about some of the Central American Operators I tried, then felt silly for having them. Now you guys have got me charging, testing, and fitting one one to a Pelican box I happen to have. With some soft weights, I guess I could carry one and leave the other with the skipper. Gawd, there's another 5# in my travel bag, 3# in my boarding bag, 2# strapped to me somewhere when I stand up. The battery does last a couple of days on 1 watt and I can switch to 5 watts for brief transmissions. I dunno; guess it would depend on the situation.

I would like to see the dive operator's statement if he ever posts one anywhere. Let me know if you see one. The news guys seem to be quoting the cute blonde with baby blue eyes who photographs so well.

Someone mentioned boats who have tracking or homing beacons? That'd be a nice gadget but I doubt many boats anywhere will splurge for those, and the ones I've read about require a substantial receiver on the boat - something we're not likely to see in adventure areas like this, at least not for a while.

For me, now that we're not arguing over whether dragons can be tamed or not (they're safer with a full belly and/or heat of the day, got it, thanks) the take away learning here kinda boils down to...

Feeling even more strongly about the signal devices discussed in the thread in my "Get found" link below; I used to think a diver was dumb for going to sea without a sausage (as it seems the tourists all did here) but now I think the $40 Diver Alert whistle is also essential;
Get the full briefing on currents and what-ifs for every site; so often we want to rush thru the briefings, distracted with our gear, etc, but lets encourage the skipper to give us as much details as possible;
And if caca hits the fan, stay together, never give up, exploit your resources - except I understand why the brave Royal Marine set out on a search that the others could not keep up with.​

Carrying even more gear when the airlines are charging $100 each way for a second bag in some cases is discouraging, but we do what we gotta do.

It's been a learning experience here, thanks. I'll be watching to see if anyone adds new info, but I think we're into the dead horse beating stage now. :no

 

[Anthony Appleyard]

It seems that at least one of the divers kept his weight belt through the drift, because a newspaper report says that after landing he swung it at a Komodo Dragon to scare it away.

 

[DandyDon]

It seems that at least one of the divers kept his weight belt through the drift, because a newspaper report says that after landing he swung it at a Komodo Dragon to scare it away.

How about that; missed that account. I hope it means that she was wise enough to drop the lead off of the belt but kept the belt - perhaps to tie the BCs together so they would not drift away from each other. Guessing. If I traveled there without most of my own gear, I'd still have small pieces including weight belt keepers, but most I have observed using such belts don't have those and can drop weights off easily - sometimes too easily.

Marooned diver fights off aggresive komodo dragon with her weight belt

A Swedish diver who spent two nights marooned on an Indonesian island with four other Europeans told yesterday how she had to fight off an aggressive komodo dragon with her weight belt. Helena Nevalainen said the dragon, a member of the largest lizard species in the world, lunged at her three times before it was driven off as the divers awaited rescue on remote Rinca Island in the Komodo National Park. "It was big. It tried to have a go at my feet," she said a day after she and her companions were rescued at the end of a two-day ordeal including more than 30 hours on the dragon-infested deserted island. "I threw my diving belt. He came back and bit my diving belt and then he let go. After that he came back one more time," the 38-year-old tourist said. The Swede, three Britons and a Frenchman struggled to shore on Rinca Island overnight on Thursday after getting caught in a strong current.

Glad they fought it off ok. I suppose the local DM warned the others than running from the dragons or running into the water were both bad ideas - to throw things if needed?

 

[bttmdwllr]

Uhmmm this thread is rather long and I gave up after the 9th page. One of the guides in Palau who was swept away on the Peleliu express dive with his group told me that they were saved bec he was able to pop a flare. I know they used to make these ( I owned one but it expired) so does anyone know if stores in the USA still carry these sort of items? All the live aboards in palau issue all their guests 2 items, reef hooks AND Surface balloons.

 

[Antarctic-Adventurer]

Uhmmm this thread is rather long and I gave up after the 9th page. One of the guides in Palau who was swept away on the Peleliu express dive with his group told me that they were saved bec he was able to pop a flare. I know they used to make these ( I owned one but it expired) so does anyone know if stores in the USA still carry these sort of items? All the live aboards in palau issue all their guests 2 items, reef hooks AND Surface balloons.

Flares, now that's an interesting idea although travelling on an airline with pyrotechnics is probably banned. I imagine that you would have to keep them sealed so as not to get wet though when on the dive...

 

[DandyDon]

Flares, now that's an interesting idea although travelling on an airline with pyrotechnics is probably banned. I imagine that you would have to keep them sealed so as not to get wet though when on the dive...

I think someone said he had flown with them, but they are prohibited. I would not want to be on a plane with some in luggage. Great for local divers perhaps.
[c]

[/c]
SkyBlazer Scuba 3-Flare Pack "Waterproof to 20 dives"...? I guess they'd last longer if kept dry.

Or from: PowerFlare Corporation

]Government agencies and commercial fleets are moving away from incendiary flares because of pollution, fire danger, and liability. The example below is a police car burned and destroyed from a flare catching on fire in the trunk:

​

So maybe this would be a better idea? "waterproof to 300 ft"

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​

 

[David Bali]

Wow, what a controversy this thread has become

I just got back from the komodo islands 3days ago
been there 5 times in total
I dove with ernest long time ago, found him an interesting character
kath wasn't there back then, she was in lombok taking care of their other operation
We had a good trip over all, the only thing I did't like was the boat they use
it was a local wooden boat, very slow. and it takes 1.5hr ~ 2hrs to some of the sites (from labuan bajo, not from bidadari like they have now)
so from thereon I only do LOBs there

few things I like to point out:
1) If I am not mistaken, they were diving off tatawa kecil, where ernest calls 'current city'. 'current city' to everone else is batu bolong
2) cell phones don't work in tatawa kecil, nor in rinca or south rinca

The LOB crew was in the search when this happens
it happend in late afternoon so I think precious time was lost during this time
once they pass komodo's pink beach there aren't too many boats around, especially this time of the year. The best season to the south runs from oct till dec with best vis and temp. Usually this time of the year its 18C or below wit less then 5m vis. We did go to manta alley in the south and were lucky to be blessed with 10m+ vis and 24-25C temp

I do think the main problem is Indonesian government does not have a good coast guard or sorts. If this were in CA they would have been found long ago. But ofcourse the state of economy in this country may not afford such a luxury.

However IMHO, I would not split a group in these waters
a group should not be bigger than 6 here
if they have more divers they should have another boat with another DM and crew

 

[Antarctic-Adventurer]

Wow, what a controversy this thread has become

I just got back from the komodo islands 3days ago
been there 5 times in total

Did you check in on Reefseekers while you were there and see how they are doing?