DAN missed the boat ...

[shoredivr]

Excellent exercise, excellent plan. We do something similar, one diver at the bottom of the pool, the other swims two laps hard, surface dives (no regulator use) and approaches the donor from behind. The OOA diver taps on the donor's shoulder, signals for air, the donor counts to three and surrenders the primary. The staff felt that this was a pretty close simulation of what "the real thing" is like, and the students' awareness of where their buddy is and what their buddy's doing shot way up.

We do something similar at school, although not quite to that level. We break the class up into 2 groups and go to opposite sides of the 25-yard pool. Both groups drop down and hover (in ~3-4ft of water) and wait for the signal given by the instructor or TA.

One of the two students waiting on either side of the pool is thrown a signal that they are OOG (student is randomly chosen so they don't know it's coming). They must then give the OOG signal to their 'buddy' (on the opposite of the pool) and they start swimming towards each other. The OOG diver has to take their reg out and clip it off as they're swimming. If they forget to give the OOG signal, their buddy doesn't move towards them or do anything else until the signal is thrown...more than one time, that's made the interesting situation of having the OOG diver swim almost the entire length of the pool underwater to get air, because they forgot to signal they were OOG.

Thanks for these exercises, folks, I'm going to try them out.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Thanks for these exercises, folks, I'm going to try them out.

Don't forget to exhale if you're the OOG diver.

The drill I mentioned is designed to reinforce a few things:

1: Buddy separation -- shows you just how hard it would be to swim to your buddy if you're OOG. We also point out that this is just in a pool with perfect visibility -- if you lose your buddy when you're 'diving for real' you might have to swim against the current to reach them, or you may never find them.

2: Importance of signaling -- by having the non-OOG diver not respond until they see their buddy signal OOG, it reinforces the concept that you NEED to signal.

3: Exhaling -- you run out of gas, start exhaling lest you pop a lung. Imagine a diver running out of gas, and they start swimming upwards to meet their buddy, or they do a CESA...and forget to exhale. :11: Even though the divers in the pool are swimming horizontally to meet each other, it still reinforces the fact that you need to exhale.

 

[Thalassamania]

However, if I'm being a good buddy, and they are not, and we get separated, I'm a lot less likely to end my co$tly dive to go find them.

If you're being a good buddy there is no question of getting separated so ending your co$tly dive should be a moot point.

NOONE is going to risk time or money or personal injury for some complete stranger. If they got on the boat, they knew the risks, and if they can't manage to stick together and use the buddy system, I'm not gonna kill myself to figure out where they got off to.

If it was my best friend - his life is worth the time, money, and risk of injury to save.

Again, like I said, anyone who says they treat an insta-buddy that way is lying.

At the end of the day, the buddy system IS fundamentally and fatally flawed.

It assumes that two living, breathing, thinking people who don't know each other, can go into a situation of life or death emergency and be willing to put their life on the line to save/help the other.

I contend that the average human being is much too selfish for that system to ever work among strangers.

If you aren't diving with someone who you know for a fact will make that level of comittment, you aren't diving with a buddy. You're diving with a possible source of air should you need it and be close enough to it at the time of need.

I make that commitment on every dive I make, doesn't matter if I know you, doesn't matter if I like you.

I believe in self-sufficiency plus ... I'm of no damn use to you unless I'm well squared away and have all my own stuff under perfect control AND I have excess capacity to take care of your needs. I approach every dive that way ... and I encourage my buddy (insta, or otherwise) to do the same.

 

[PugetSounder]

I'm with NWGD and TSandM in this discussion 100%.

A couple thoughts:

1. OOG is about the only problem a pony bottle can help with. Divers experience a variety of other problems like paralyzing leg cramps, entanglement, etc.

2. If I'm headed out on an expensive trip/charter/whatever, I wouldn't be going unless I have someone else to go with whom I trust and know. I don't do the insta-buddy thing. However, if while I was on this expensive dive someone swam up to my buddy and I signaling "I've lost my buddy," the recreation-part of my dive would be over and we'd be in rescue/prevention-an-accident mode. It's just money.

3. The people I prefer to dive with people who share my philosophy and conceptual approach to this activity. Buddy separation has never been an issue when I'm diving with these people BECAUSE of our approach to the dive. IF something really weird were to happen, and we DID somehow find ourselves alone, we know the protocol, stick to it, and will meet on the surface - another protocol we use would ensure we both had enough gas to drop back in for a safety stop once we connected again, even if we were BOTH sharing the same tank for the safety stop.

In my opinion, these are basic diving skills that SHOULD be taught and practiced, but unfortunately all too often they're not. I KNOW the people I dive with are on the same page with me and I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that they will be "right there" in my moment of need. They trust the same of me, and this makes our diving MUCH MUCH more relaxed and enjoyable.

I agree that DAN swung-at, and missed, a fantastic teaching opportunity.

 

[djanni]

No amount of equipment can make up for making bad decisions.

Yes it can Jeff.

If you provoked a gun toting moron enough to shoot you, you would be glad you were wearing a bullet proof vest. Or, after taking a bullet in the chest, you might have a fleeting moment to wish you had that piece of equipment.

I read the article last week when the mag came in. No doubt bad decisions were being made; however, I disagree with Grateful that DAN was suggesting that a Pony bottle was the solution to the incident. I agree that, in that situation, having a pony might have eliminated the problem.

I don't have a pony, yet I've always been tempted. Maybe more so now. I'd rather have a tool that could help me should I make a bad decision than not to have the tool because I'm counting on nothing but good/smart decisions.

 

[ONESPEED]

I agree with most points but find it ironic on this forum. I was amazed at how many balked at the use of tank bangers. Without audible signals, it's not easy to signal a buddy. Such a device may have made signaling easier.

Underwater noise makers have never been, and will never be a substitute for good buddy skills. If anything they are a crutch that makes divers complacent in their buddy skills.

 

[Geoff_H]

I think we have a lot of great Scubaboard divers posting on this thread. They are well trained, experienced, have great equipment and have invested the time and money to become extremely good divers. They will be far safer than most, and probably enjoy their diving more than most.

I said - fair play to them all.

I would also say what works for them won't work for the other 99.9% of the divers in the world. They have been through PADI courses, dive a few times a year, don't have their own gear and basically as not as good divers as Lynne, Bob and a host of others who have been trained to use doubles, and who engage in more technical levels of diving which require greater skill levels.

If you are going to be dogmatic, you can say that the 99.9% of divers should be trained to the same level as people here, and then the whole world population of divers will conduct safe and fun dives. Sadly though, however we wish this was true it simply isn't going to happen.

Everytime I read "that wouldn't have happened if you were diving DIR" I wince, not because it isn't true but just because it is completely irrelevant. We're never going to go back to the days of long training programs, intensive skills courses and when divers were big strong men..... we moved on past that and tens of millions of recreational dives are conducted perfectly safely every year by open water divers.

Any advice or improvements to the process need to be focussed on the majority of the diving population, and this doesn't really include the few thousand who have taken one or more GUE courses. They are already there, and don't need DANs advice in its newsletter. DAN's advice needs to be practical - not "your skills suck, do an expensive hard training course lasting several days" might be great advice but it's going to be completely ignored by the majority.

Most people do dive with insta-buddies, most don't have one regular buddy... the way a sensible diver approach es diving with an insta-buddy and a regular dive buddy are completely different. A sensible diver will recognise that, rather than keep parroting the same lines about buddy awareness and team diving in the real world is not so black and white....

 

[sea nmf]

I agree that good buddy skills are not usually taught in OW. That really should be done. I also agree that self reliance is very important. I do think DAN did not really cover all the bases on this incident.

I have had buddies just take off on me. One time I was chasing, and chasing, and because I was low on air, I had to give up the chase and surface. Another time, even after I specifically discussed staying together on the dive, the buddy took off. I kept up with her and basically did not enjoy my dive. But I didn't dive with her again.

I dive because I enjoy it. If a buddy is going to impede my enjoyment, I will not dive with them again. But I will attempt to be a good buddy to them for that one dive.

As for diving shoulder to shoulder, I find that a bit difficult unless you are doing a square profile and you know where the boundries are. I always discuss where the placement is and try to stay there. If I am the leader, then I make the turns, etc. and my buddy is right where I expect them to be; close by but not at my shoulder. Usually, just about a foot behind on whatever side we agree on.

 

[SPG3K]

DAN's advice needs to be practical - not "your skills suck, do an expensive hard training course lasting several days" might be great advice but it's going to be completely ignored by the majority.

Thats a good point, I think.

I can see NWGD's point about them not addressing the buddy system issue, but you also raise a valid point.

Most people would be way more likely to buy a pony bottle than take a course about buddy diving, however sad or broken that line of thinking may be.

 

[Thalassamania]

I think we have a lot of great Scubaboard divers posting on this thread. They are well trained, experienced, have great equipment and have invested the time and money to become extremely good divers. They will be far safer than most, and probably enjoy their diving more than most.

...

Most people do dive with insta-buddies, most don't have one regular buddy... the way a sensible diver approach es diving with an insta-buddy and a regular dive buddy are completely different. A sensible diver will recognise that, rather than keep parroting the same lines about buddy awareness and team diving in the real world is not so black and white....

I understand what you're saying but I don't see a "sensible" middle ground, we either have to train divers to be effective buddies or we need to train them to be effective solo divers, anything else is just playing Russian roulette which is how I feel about most diver training today.