DAN missed the boat ...

[Sinbad the Diver]

A noooooobs take:

If I was having a conversation on the street with someone about the incident in question and they responded that the answer is a Pony Bottle I would say yep, that would have helped, because it never hurts to have enough air.

This is not some guy on the street though, this is the organization who's mission is diver safety. I agree with the OP that simply saying you need more air is missing a lot of opportunities to stress the safety practices that were ignored throughout the reported event. The way this post has moved on to discussions of best buddy practices (lead/follow, shoulder to shoulder, etc) is a nice adjunct and has value, but what I got from the OPs post was a great reminder that no piece of equipment can replace appropriate safety practices, something that DAN's article missed the opportunity to highlight.

 

[AbyssalPlains]

While I agree with most of your points, NWDiver, especially the one that you politely called "bad decision making" (i would have found slightly more drastic words for that kind of stupidity), you bring up what in my mind is the achilles heel of buddy diving, namely the question of how close/aware buddies are of each other. In my experience, the buddy system works if, and only if, the two divers literally watch each other more than the underwater environment and hold hands throughout the dive. My girlfriend and I used to dive together and we tried to be very conscious of this. We quickly came to realize we kept track of each other pretty well and stayed close, but that may not be enough in a true OOA emergency (which to me includes a reg freeflow for all practical purposes). So we did a little test in the pool. We both simulated a typical diving situation, which reflected pretty much what is practiced by 99 percent of the diving population from what I have seen. We swam about along the bottom, glancing at each other every few seconds or so and checking out the tiles on the pool walls. At some point in time, I spit out my reg, doing the out of air signal and blowing bubbles, all the while waiting for my girlfriend to look over. At last, I ran out of air, stuck my reg back in and continued to breathe. By the time she looked at me, she wasn't even aware of what had happened. This worked both ways, I should say, and I didn't reach her in time either when she simulated an OOA scenario. So, to me, the bottom ine is: Yes buddy diving is great, but not practical in the real world. My experiences prompted me to get a redundant air source (pony) and dive solo whenever I can. Never before have i felt so relaxed and secure underwater, knowing I can rely on myself in REALTIME instead of relying on a buddy that may or may not pay attention to my problem AFTER considerable time has elapsed.

 

[JeffG]

No amount of equipment can make up for making bad decisions.

 

[SPG3K]

No one? I know several law enforcement offers who do this every day. In fact, countless numbers of your average citizens have come to the aid of complete strangers at the risk of their own peril. I know some average folks who are the kind of people who would NOT be able to just stand by and do nothing.

There are thousands of American soldiers currently risking their lives for people they don't know.

I would hate to live my life thinking so lowly and cynically of people...

SPG3K, I would hope that, if we were diving together and you needed aid, that I would be the kind of person to do what I could to help you. Sadly, it sounds like if it were the reverse, I would be on my own...

Rick, I'm a Police Officer.

I am paid daily to put myself in harms way on your (in general) behalf.

It's a risk I am willing and able to take, and I find it very fulfilling.

I pride myself on the way I dive with ANY buddy.

The point I am trying to make is that no insta buddy (unless you got someone who has posted here, maybe, or members of this community) is going to feel the same or act the same.

When I go to work each day - I put my life in my OWN hands, and of those I find capable. (My backup)

Do you think I would walk into a shootout with some random person off the street whom I knew nothing about? Regardless of their "training" on the "buddy system" as it applies to shooting?

I'm trying to prove a point.

I may be new, yes, but I understand the system of diving with a buddy. I am a very good buddy, in my own estimation. My goal underwater is to be close enough should something happen. To be attentive enough to make that rescue if needed.

My point is that to think that the average diver insta-buddy team shares the level training, commitment and ability needed is ludicrous.

I would gladly take anyone from this post as a buddy. But you know as well as me that the people you find on charters and as pick-ups are for the most part, lackluster or don't care.

Of course, if someone underwater was having an emergency, I would do what I am capable of doing to help.

Does that mean I can trust them to do the same? Please.

Like I said. Certain people make the buddy system work. Random people who don't know me or care about me are not going to make a concerted effort to make sure I'm ok.

Again - I was playing devil's advocate.

My life's work so far is public service. I would be a horrible public servant if I spent my time judging who I should and shouldn't risk my life for.

But the point is still valid. I don't trust random charter buddies to save me if I'm in trouble.

 

[scubajcf]

My three cents (increase reflects the rising cost of gasoline):

I think there are a lot of great points in this thread. A must read for every new diver. There is no right or wrong, just growth through the benefit of other people's experiences.

There is a lot that can go wrong underwater, not just out of air, and divers need to be prepared for that.

I am a big supporter of Self Sufficiency and Pony Bottles. I spend a lot of time teaching these practices in my solo and other advanced level dive courses. However, I am not naive to think the mainstream diver is using these techniques. I find Scubaboard divers are more educated, more experienced and more skilled divers (netdoc can use that as an endorsement). In fact, for the mainstream diver, the opposite is more the reality. Most weekend warriors are using the same skills they learned in Open Water and are subsituting 20/20 (twenty feet for twenty minutes) dive experience as replacement for continuing education. While experience is useful and necessary as a part of the learning curve, from what I witness there is definitely a degraded level of skill. Poor buoyancy, poor buddy practices, poor gas management are just a few of the sub-par skills that people are diving with.

I am truly disheartened to see more and more dive accidents (some resulting in death) could have been easily avoided through the use of better core/basic skills. The last dive accident I am privvy too could have been avoided through a simple pre-dive check which would have shown his dry suit hose was not connected. Fortunately, he ended up ok. The last serious accident I am privvy too was frought with issues including a lost buddy and out of air situation. About a year ago, I surfaced from a training dive. I found a member of another dive team searching for his buddy. They were separated 25 minutes prior. Yes I said 25 minutes. The buddy on the surface was freaking out ready to call 911. His buddy was enjoying a dive. Fortunately, the buddy surfaced unscathed shortly after my student and I surfaced. His buddy tore him a new one.

Whether you are using a buddy or solo diving, you have to develop a plan and stick to it. Buddy rules vary according to mission and conditions. There are no concrete rules as to how far a buddy should be or what the missing buddy protocols to follow are (1 minute and surface is a steadfast and accepted standard). Those are decided before the dive. If your buddy violates those rules, then that is not a good buddy and you simply shouldn't dive with them until they get proper training and follow it.

Every dive should include the following (use checklists whenever possible):

1. Equipment Check a day or so before the dive.
2. Site, Safety Briefing
3. Dive Briefing (specific to the site)
4. Put together Dive (Buddy) Plan (should include gas management/matching/etc.)
5. Do pre dive equipment check (mask on face in the water preferred) / Weight or Buoyancy check
6. Descend together / Bubble check at 15' / S-Drill if using a long hose
7. Dive your Plan
8. Ascend Together
9. Safety Stop
10. Floating Safety Stop / Equipment Check
11. Debriefing

If you are diving solo, much of this remains the same.

jcf

 

[SPG3K]

You might be the smartest person in the world but my advice to you is with your very limited diving experience, you might do your self a favor and pay a little more attention to someone with Bob's diving experience.........Or are you speaking from 30 years of diving experience and you just made a mistake on your profile?......

My limited diving experience that leads me to want to be self reliant?

I don't understand your point.

Bob's point was that the article didn't address the buddy system, which I believe to be fundamentally flawed in 95% of cases based on human nature.

The only buddy teams that can work are those in which both parties are willing to worry about the safety of the other in earnest. I just don't see that happening in most cases.

Am I wrong? Have you experienced a different environment on your outings with random buddies?

Because every random buddy I've had in my EXTREMELY limited tenure has been far more concerned with their own goals underwater that whether or not I was ok, or even whether or not I was THERE near them.

I should add - again, for clarity - I am simply playing devil's advocate to the problem.

Just because I believe the system is flawed doesn't mean I won't do what I can to make it work, and do it wholeheartedly.

I just don't count on some random person to be there when I need them. But you can bet the bank that if someone free flows underwater or goes OOA, whether or not they knew I was near them, I'll have an Octo extended when they decide it's time to find me.

I just simply do not believe it to be the same in reverse. I believe I will be on my own if that happens, based on what I've seen to date. Maybe someone will surprise me, who knows.

 

[Thalassamania]

If you are not willing to thumb the dive (for whatever reason, economic or otherwise) you shouldn't make that dive, after all ... it's just recreation.

 

[TSandM]

First off, to address the "instabuddy" thing: I have now travelled to Maui, Monterey, Southern California, and Florida, and gotten in the water with people I only knew from talking to them on the internet. In EVERY case, the dive has proceeded without any issues at all. Why? Because we're trained the same way, and we're trained that situational awareness is the highest priority. We're drilled on positioning and effective communication, and we use an expensive but extremely valuable tool: A very bright, focused light.

Keeping track of your buddy doesn't require looking at him constantly, or holding hands with him, even in very low viz. (Disclaimer: The lowest viz I've dived in is about three feet, so things may change if it's lower than that. But then, I always wonder why somebody is diving when they can't see ANYTHING . . .) It requires a commitment on the part of both divers (or all three -- we frequently dive in teams of three) to KEEP THE TEAM TOGETHER. This means you spend some time looking around at fish and what-not, and then you check your buddy. The lower the viz, the more frequently you have to do this, but the lights really help, because often you can see your buddy's light while you're scanning the environment, and thus keep track of him.

We have done this in low viz, and in current, and on scooters.

As Bob said, most people aren't taught how to be a good dive buddy. They haven't talked about the various formations you can use, and the advantages and drawbacks of each. They haven't been exposed to the utility of a good light for passive communication. And of course, keeping a buddy team together also requires good buoyancy skills.

The problem with instabuddies isn't that they're instabuddies; it's that they're often inadequately trained. There are undoubtedly some with what I would consider bad attitudes, whose intent is to jump in the water and go off by themselves, despite having agreed to buddy up, but my guess is that far more often, it's a matter of poor skills rather than poor intentions.

I think, in the three years I've been on Scubaboard, this is the very first time I've thought DA Aquamaster's advice was anything but stellar.

 

[SPG3K]

The problem with instabuddies isn't that they're instabuddies; it's that they're often inadequately trained. There are undoubtedly some with what I would consider bad attitudes, whose intent is to jump in the water and go off by themselves, despite having agreed to buddy up, but my guess is that far more often, it's a matter of poor skills rather than poor intentions.

TSandM - you are correct, and I suppose I made an error in my labeling of the problems source.

I was calling the problem as the "insta-buddy" itself, when I should have been saying buddies that are not equally or properly trained, or who simply don't care, as I'm sure there are some people I wouldn't mind being insta-buddied with.

 

[Bismark]

Advocates for pony bottles and the like as a substitute or replacement or fall back position (call it what ever you want) invariably cite OOG as the problem they are trying to solve or avoid. However, as I mentioned above, this is only one problem you will find UW. Granted it is a serious one but it is most assuredly not the only potential life threatening problem. Most of these same advocates seem to forget that your buddy has one piece of gear that is not yet standard feature on pony bottles etc..............a redundant brain. I will take the brain over the equipment every time. (At least I used to believe that until I started reading a lot of posts on SB..........