Cavern courses?

[m.hamner]

I know my OW instructor shouldn't have done it, but he took our class through the overhead training environments in vortex springs, FL and also in the cavern leading to the cave.

Well I'm hooked but he scared the crap out of us regarding improperly trained divers overconfidently going where they aren't trained.

Well I'm not going to do that and only go where i'm trained to go.

Who puts on a very detailed cavern course??? What all is involved with the course? Should I do intro to cave instead?

I haven't seen a lot of material on cavern courses. Is it just not popular?? i.e. people skip ahead to cave courses?

Let me know what you think. It would really help me plan my summer training.





OW Certified
AOW next
First Responder next
Rescue Diver next
Cavern next


-Matt

 

[InkDiver]

You can't skip Cavern and go directly to Cave. Cavern is a prereq for Intro/Basic/Cave 1 no matter the agency as far as I am aware.

As far as who teaches a good course, there are many good instructors in and around cave country. Check the instructor listings for the NACD National Association For Cave Diving or the NSS-CDS Cave Diving Section of the National Speleological Society

Talk to some instructors, ask lots of questions, and talk to cavern and cave divers for their recommendations.

I'll throw in my recommendations for Rick Mrucar (GDI here on SB) at Genesis Scuba Diving Institute of Florida and Bert Wilcher at Tampa Adventure Sports Tampa Adventure Sports, also Rich Courtney at Cave and Technical Dive Training. I don't personally know, but have heard really good things about Jim Wyatt and Johnny Richards as well. Oh yeah, almost forgot Larry Green, he's the man!

 

[Scubastud16]

Keep in mind that I am NOT cave trained; I am taking my cavern course next weekend, but I'll take a stab at your questions because they are fairly general.

What your instructor did was not correct, but unfortunately was not uncommon. There is a reason why they put "Open Water Instructors Have Died Here" on all the "Do Not Pass" signs in the Florida Springs...they don't have the necessary training, etc.

Most cave instructors will put on a good cavern course. PADI teaches one, and some will advise you not to take it because some instructors will not accept it for later cave training. I'm taking mine through NACD, but they are offered through NSS-CDS, TDI, etc.

You must take cavern before you take Intro/Basic. It is a requirement for all later cave training. It's also just a good class to take, even if you never proceed further.

Cavern courses are pretty popular, but the reason you probably don't see much is that most people do no stop after cavern, they proceed into Intro/Basic, then Full cave training. Very few people I know have stopped at that level (cavern).

As to what you can expect in the class: I cannot give you specifics, seeing as how I have not taken the course yet. You will learn to do proper kick techniques, run line, air shares, and equipment set up among other things.

Hope that helps!

Danny

 

[TSandM]

GUE Cave 1 does not have a cavern prerequisite; in fact, GUE doesn't have a cavern class. Does the NAUI Cave 1 have a cavern prerequisite?

If you are hooked and really want to see the caves, cavern won't get you much in Florida. In Mexico, the caverns are more extensive and you can spend more time in them, but in Florida, you're going to want at least an Intro or Cave 1 cert to widen your options. Since you are in Florida, it should be pretty easy to arrange a class, maybe even over a couple of weekends (since Cavern and Intro are four days). Cave 1, either from GUE or NAUI, is a five day class, and usually not broken up as far as I know.

If you don't have any exposure to cave equipment (BP/W, long hose, paddle fins) and you haven't been taught non-silting propulsion (frog kick, modified frog, modified flutter) or helicopter turns, and haven't played with a back kick, you might do well to start with a cavern class. Those things should be introduced there, and then you can go off and practice them, and come back to do Intro with a stronger set of basic skills. That's essentially what I did, although I did GUE Fundamentals to get the basic skills. But I didn't do my cave classes until the basics were solid.

Have fun with this -- Clearly the cave monster bit you while you were in there, and you're forever lost now

 

[InkDiver]

GUE Cave 1 does not have a cavern prerequisite; in fact, GUE doesn't have a cavern class. Does the NAUI Cave 1 have a cavern prerequisite?

I stand corrected

 

[dl348]

NAUI Cave I does not have Cavern as a prerequisite either.

 

[Peter Guy]

As someone who has just finished my Cave class (I did Cavern/Intro in October), I'd recommend NOT doing Cavern but, instead, spend the time and money to take NAUI Cave 1 -- or (and TSandM's not going to believe this) GUE's Cave 1. BUT BEFORE YOU DO EITHER, take GUE's DIR-F or its equivalent from NAUI or private instruction/mentor to get solid "basics."

The Caves are an incredible experience -- but inside a cave is NOT the time to learn the basics of non-silting kicks, buoyancy, trim, failures, etc. Get those down and then do your cave training. You'll love it.

 

[Mike D]

Well, when you feel you are ready Jim Wyatt is an awesome instructor. I took my Cavern course with him in Feb. and I am going to finish my Intro. class with him next month.

 

[Dive-aholic]

cavern won't get you much in Florida.

I disagree. There is actually a lot to see in the caverns here in Florida. Being that the first time you came here, you were already Intro certified, you really didn't take the time to check out the cavern. I have spent hours in Jackson Blue's cavern diving with cavern divers and while teaching a cavern class and continue to find things I hadn't noticed before. And that's just one cavern. I've checked out lots of other caverns in more detail as well. It's quite surprising what you can miss when you're focus is to get in the cave (and out of the cavern zone) to see what's beyond. Sometimes you just need to stop and look around.

Mat, there are a few instructors in the panhandle that teach cavern through cave. While the instructors recommended so far are all good, they are all in the High Springs area. You can easily do a cavern course closer to home.

Also, your instructor did do wrong to bring you into the overhead. I'm not sure if your instructor is overhead certified or not, but my guess is not. I would hope he knew better if he was. I'm a cave diver and cavern instructor and do not bring my OW students into any overhead of any type (well, except the air box at Vortex on occasion). I've also overheard some of the instructors at Vortex talk about cave divers. Unfortunately, it's often a case of not knowing what they're talking about. Most of them try to educate their students on cave diving (in a well meaning way), but really don't have a clue. Check out the videos on this page. Hopefully, this will be enough to keep you from entering the overhead without proper training. Good luck with your future courses!

 

[stairman]

Many opinions here so far,heres mine.Take a cavern course.Padi uses the same manuals as nss and nacd.My cavern was through Padi and looking back it was presented well.I cant speak for gue or naui but nss and nacd recognizes padi certs.There are lots of caverns in florida to keep you busy for a while but Ive heard Mexico caverns are better.I went on to full cave thru both nss and nacd.You will be amazed at how much better a diver you will be after the two day course.Better buancy and trim,streamlined gear,long hose management,non-silting fin techniques,running safety lines,emergency procedures etc.