Aow=bs

[seaducer]

As far as the PADI certification goes, AOW is almost solely for divers to have experienced narcosis on the deep dive with an instructor before they are certified to go past 60', so they can identify narcosis if/when it hits them again and respond accordingly. That's it. ...

2) I have had an obviously very experienced diver give me **** about my SAC on my 11th dive. Dude was a total dick, and I can guarantee I will never forget that. And you know what? That attitude is not helpful. At all. Your attitude is not helpful, at all.

Well said on most, I will disagree with your POV on what AOW is for.

As far as depth, what it really does is show a brand spanking new diver that the theory they learned in OW is correct, you will use alot more air the deeper you go. Intangible? How about that most new divers get sort of worked up about diving deeper than they have experienced before, and it is good that their first "deep" experience is with a certified instructor. Putting a new diver's mind at ease that they will be with someone who can look out for them is more what the depth portion of AOW is about.

Same thing with the night dive, anyone who thinks night diving is the same on your nerves as day diving has forgotten what it is like to be a newbie, or even someone who simply hasn't ever done a night dive before. After your 100th night dive it is no big thing, but your 1st one can be pretty darn scary. Easier if you are buddied up with an instructor though.

Navigation, it is really a good idea to prcatice the theory you learned in OW under the watchful eye of someone who has been trained to convey knowledge.

Those were the core dives 10 years ago, if things have changed. My electives were Search and Recovery and Wreck, I thought they were excellent add ons that gave me a starting point and level of confidence in my diving.

IMO Advanced Open Water means you have Advanced your OW training. Personally I think AOW should be included with OW as your minimum certification level.

You are spot on with point number 2.

OP, I too picked up SCUBA like I was born into it. Perhaps spending my entire childhood snorkeling, surfing, etc I kind of was born into it. At about 2 years in I thought I was good to go. If I only knew then how much I didn't know I might know much more now...

Whenever I run into a diver like our intrepid hero, 25 dives, AOW, the smelly in-ability to hold their breakfast in a mild chop (nothing to do with diving ability BTW), I think how lucky they are to be starting this wonderful journey. I try to drop them a few nuggets of my 10+ years experience. Most listen and try to apply it to what they know. Some act like they know it all already. Whatever, my advice is free and not worth much more than that. I just follow them around, they may be jerks but if they need help I will do my best...

 

[lmorin]

If wikipedia is not good enough than perhaps this quote from NAUI's basic book will be better.

' To work properly, a wet suit must fit your body quite snugly. Once you enter the water, a thin layer of water enters the suit and is trapped between your skin and the inner surface of the suit. This water is warmed to your body temperature.'

Back to the intertwined topic...
That Naui statement is pretty much factually correct, but it does not either mean or imply that warmed water is what keeps you warm. Water, if cooler than your body surface temp, cannot be insulation as it is a heatsink, drawing heat from you. In fact, the entire purpose of insulation is to provide separation between you, the source of heat, and the ocean water which is a rather massive heatsink. The greater the thickness of the insulation, up to a point, the less the heat loss.

The Naui comment about the need for snug fit means that too loose a fit would allow too much water to flow too rapidly over your body. Because water is a heatsink, too much heat would be removed by that water.

If there is an error in the Naui statement, it is with the word "trapped." This implies that it cannot get out at all, which is not true. It got in; it can and does get out.

As to water entering the wetsuit, well, if it were a "perfect" wetsuit it would be a drysuit. It starts out dry, of course, but dang, some gets in, doesn't it? Does that mean that no more enters after the initial bit? Nope. A small amount enters continuously while an equally small amount flushes through and out. As someone above said, how else would pee get removed?

 

[String]

You start by knowing some water will get into the suit. Water is a good conductor of heat so removes it from your body transferring it to itself. The goal of a wetsuit is to (i) limit the amount of water in the suit (in other words a good tight fit) and (ii) minimise water exchange from the suit to out to keep the warmed water there to reduce the temperature gradient (so good seals etc).

If it was the water that kept you warm not the air then drysuits would be freezing!

 

[The Logic Theorist]

Well said on most, I will disagree with your POV on what AOW is for.

As far as depth, what it really does is show a brand spanking new diver that the theory they learned in OW is correct, you will use alot more air the deeper you go. Intangible? How about that most new divers get sort of worked up about diving deeper than they have experienced before, and it is good that their first "deep" experience is with a certified instructor. Putting a new diver's mind at ease that they will be with someone who can look out for them is more what the depth portion of AOW is about.

Here's where my POV comes from:

The only "skill" on the deep dive for AOW is timing something complicated at the surface (we had a combination lock to open) and timing it again at depth to show the impact of narcosis on your speed and coordination. The rest of what you said I totally agree with, and I can admit that my statement was pretty simplistic and left out some nuance of the dive and the mindset, but IMO the most important thing I took from that dive was a recognition of what narcosis feels like so I could identify it later.

I have the rest of the Deep specialty at this point btw, and I think it's a really good set of dives overall.

Same thing with the night dive, anyone who thinks night diving is the same on your nerves as day diving has forgotten what it is like to be a newbie, or even someone who simply hasn't ever done a night dive before. After your 100th night dive it is no big thing, but your 1st one can be pretty darn scary. Easier if you are buddied up with an instructor though.

Navigation, it is really a good idea to prcatice the theory you learned in OW under the watchful eye of someone who has been trained to convey knowledge.

Those were the core dives 10 years ago, if things have changed. My electives were Search and Recovery and Wreck, I thought they were excellent add ons that gave me a starting point and level of confidence in my diving.

The night dive is actually not required by PADI anymore, although I did a night dive as well. That was pretty eye opening for me, I thought I would love it and instead hated it.

My electives were also search and recovery and wreck, and the search and recovery in particular was a lot of fun and an awesome learning experience. That dive alone was probably worth the cost of the class, so I really can't understand someone saying the cert is worthless (unless of course they have instructors who give them electives like fish identification and boat diver).

 

[ScubaAddictedLisa]

I don't think it's necessarily that he had ONLY 25 dives. I have only 21 dives, and I can do all the things you said he couldn't. I'm sorry, but by 25 dives, whether he was OW or AOW, he should know how to set up his gear. That just shows how he personally is, and not that he's got a limited number of dives. Heck, everyone I took my OW course with knew how to set up their gear before we finished with the pool training! I had a GREAT OW instructor, and she was VERY diligent about teaching us to be as self-sufficient as possible (as OW divers).

I've gone on to get my AOW after only 10 dives. What did that give me? Well, for starters, some experience with deep diving, some more navigation training, some experience with night diving, etc. Did it give me the ability to remember what I was taught in my OW and my AOW training better ... well, not exactly. Yes, the extra dives added more experiences with diving, but I had to have understood and remembered what I was taught all on my own.

This guy could have had 100 logged dives, and if none of them were off a boat, he'd still have trouble with the giant stride.

And I've seen first hand (on my limited number of dives) that divers with MANY MANY dives under their belt still do things that shouldn't be done!! Like destroying the reef with their hands/fins/equipment!! Honestly, I've got such a HUGE pet peeve for seeing divers (especially more experienced divers) moving along with their gauges dragging below them, all along the reef!!

As for the throwing up ... ANYONE can get seasick, no matter how many dives you have done.

 

[anzac65]

I just knew when I posted this that there would be a LOT of people responding who got their AOW immediately after their OW simply by writing a check for two or three hundred dollars and an afternoon with an instructor. That's the point. It's a cash cow for PADI and other cerification agencies and nothing else. That is unless it is taught by Ber Rabbit of someone else who really makes it worthwhile.

Hey Garrobo. You need to go have a beer.

 

[anzac65]

WOW!!!! I bet that you have all of the answers to lifes mysteries,too!! How about the cure for cancer?! You're arrogance is annoying and laughable at the same time.

Watch your step Beachlover.... I have a feeling Garrobo may actually be Chuck Norris...

 

[jviehe]

I do not see where what you said AOW is for is any different from what I'd said it was for. You lost me on what was incorrect that I said, could you be more specific?

Also, the book is called Adventures in Diving and the dives are referred to as Adventure Dives, but the certification is still called Advanced Open Water, at least for PADI.

PADI Advanced Open Water Diver Course Details

I said you were not entirely correct in that "AOW is almost solely for divers to have experienced narcosis on the deep dive with an instructor before they are certified to go past 60'". Also, the AOW certification is a recognition of certain requirements met, which are completing 5 adventure dives including deep and nav. A few years ago, all the materials were changed to reflect this.

 

[Hank49]

:no Just came back from the Keys and was on the boat with a guy who had an AOW card. He had logged 25 dives up to then, mostly in springs and a couple of cave dives. Wore a 5mm Farmer John and 5mm shorty in Keys water. (You can figure the lead he carried.) Had trouble hooking up his regs correctly, couldn't figure out the giant stride, had a hell of a time getting his BC on and fins off and onto the boat. NO buoyancy control. Puked after both dives. Swam with his arms mostly and used up air like a steam engine. So much for the AOW rating in this particular case.
I'm a .

Geeez Garrobo. Give the guy a break. For all you know, he could be from....I don't know....OHIO or somewhere. (snicker snicker....)

 

[jviehe]

Here's where my POV comes from:

The only "skill" on the deep dive for AOW is timing something complicated at the surface (we had a combination lock to open) and timing it again at depth to show the impact of narcosis on your speed and coordination. The rest of what you said I totally agree with, and I can admit that my statement was pretty simplistic and left out some nuance of the dive and the mindset, but IMO the most important thing I took from that dive was a recognition of what narcosis feels like so I could identify it later.

I have the rest of the Deep specialty at this point btw, and I think it's a really good set of dives overall.

The deep adventure dive is a lot more than comparing guages and doing a narcosis dive. THe main component is dive planing, recognizing the differences in deep vs shallow diving. I guess the problem here is what the student sees vs what the instructors sees in a class. A student may see only haveing to do an excercise, but an instructor is evaulating a whole bunch of other stuff in regards to safety. Much of the adventure dives, however, are simply for experience, not skill mastery. Specialities are for that.