Sunscreen killing coral?

[BKP]

For the record, kraw...
- I'm not an environmentalist. I'm a realist. I believe in nuclear power, because oil is much more finite, and has a larger downside (in my opinion). I believe in intelligent expansion because it's both necessary, and inevitable. I believe in what makes sense for the greater good, long term.
- I have NO opinion on the veracity of the sunscreen studies. I haven't read them. The original post was to point to it, and let others form their own opinions. JUST to point to it.
- I have no problem with debating, when there's an issue to debate.
- I'm not shocked by anyone disagreeing with me about anything. Such is life. I'm simply, and eternally, perplexed by by common stupidity.
-- If I can throw a 5 cubic inch candy wrapper in the garbage instead of leaving it in the vast expanse of a national park with "millions and millions" of wooded acres, I'll do so.
-- If I can be cognizant of not wasting even a glass of water in Atlanta, even though there are still "billions and billions" of gallons left in Lake Lanier, I'll do so.
-- If there's even a 2% chance, that a damaging viral domino effect can occur on a reef, due to divers wearing sunscreen, according to a marine viral/coral researcher, then it's not a life-altering act to simply not use the stuff when I dive, until absolute evidence is presented one way or the other.

Bottom line, whether or not you care to take the studies seriously is your choice. I don't care. I'll form my own opinions, and act as I see fit. As will you. What *does* chap my ass is some fool diminishing the possibility of the damage WITHOUT knowing any more about it than I or anyone else does. That has nothing to do with debate.

 

[H2Andy]

i am environmentally conscious

i also believe that the hallmark of the modern experience is skepticism

just because something is stated regarding the environment doesn't mean that i will accept it without question

that said, it makes sense to not spread chemicals around, so i see no harm in wearing biodegradable sunscreen and quite a bit of good

on the other hand, just because one study says something, it doesn't mean it has been scientifically established and it's a reprehensible un-scientific attitude not to accept it. in fact, quite the opposite it's true. it's un-scientific to rush to accept something without sufficient research and study

i don't buy ideologies wholesale, and i approach the environment the same way

 

[BKP]

on the other hand, just because one study says something, it doesn't mean it has been scientifically established and it's a reprehensible un-scientific attitude not to accept it. in fact, quite the opposite it's true. it's un-scientific to rush to accept something without sufficient research and study

Absolutely.

The sin is not skepticism -- rather, prematurely discounting the possibility...

 

[scubadale]

I think to be safe we need to not apply sunscreen directly to corals as the amount the researcher used was rather large.

This is where research is published in a peer-review article.

http://www.ehponline.org/members/2008/10966/10966.pdf

The following is taken from the third reference in post #6:

Robert van Woesik, a coral expert at the Florida Institute of Technology, was not involved in the research.

He questions whether conditions in the study accurately reflect those found in nature.

For example, the coral samples were exposed to sunscreen while in plastic bags to avoid contaminating the reefs. But van Woesik worries this prevented dilution of the chemicals through natural water circulation.

"Under normal situations on a coral reef, corals would not be subjected to these high concentrations because of rapid dilution," van Woesik said.

Since neither you nor I read his paper, neither of us know WHAT size dose he used.


This didn't begin as a debate. You made it so.

The original point was simple. If there's room for doubt... if there's a wisp of a glimmer of a hint that you can do something positive for the environment you assert you protect... then leave the sunscreen at home when you dive.

"Under normal situations on a coral reef, corals would not be subjected to these high concentrations because of rapid dilution," van Woesik said.




He can not state that based on his published paper as he DID NOT use small doses.

By the way, did you consider where he got the coral for his research?????

I try to minimize the introduction of ANY chemicals into the environment be they biodegradable or not.

I think there are larger issues to be debating, or spending research funding for, than sunscreen affect on coral. Someday I hope that is all we have to worry about.

I gave you the link in this thread to the paper. I did read it before I commented on it. Perhaps you could take the time to read YOUR OWN thread before you start telling me what I have read or have not read. Then follow the link and read the researcher's study where his minimum dose is 50 ul per 2 liters. I DO know how much sunscreen he used.

I think it would be prudent to READ and understand the research BEFORE telling the members of scubaboard that sunscreen kills coral.

Cars kill coral, so don't drive, plastics kill coral so cut the use of that out of your life, electricity kills coral so don't use that, most farming kills more coral than sunscreen ever does, so don't eat.

So if you choose not to wear sunscreen then fine, I choose not to and wear a skin instead. If interested you can fund my research and I can "prove" that titanium dioxide kills coral also.

 

[Parysa]

And to think I was worried about the motor oil that washes off the street and down the storm drains, its been sunscreen all along.

<snip>I am glad that all the dive boats sitting above the reef dripping oil into the water are not damaging the reefs.

I don't think anyone's saying that sunscreen is the ONLY thing that could possibly harm or kill coral. That's like someone saying, "aspartame is a carcinogen" and being told "Oh, well, and I was worried about my cholesterol." I haven't read the studies and I don't know enough about it to say whether I believe it or not, but we can't really do a whole lot about motor oil runoff but we can do something about sunscreen if it really is harmful. Just my .02.

 

[Crush (Virginia USA)]

Nice thread of contention/derision.

I've got a solution. Hats and SPF T-Shirts. As long as the hats and Ts don't fly off the back of the boat under speed or windy conditions then I think the peoples and the corals can co-exist.

Not to add more flame to the fire but I thought that Kitty Litter was the number one problem polluting the ocean.

 

[drbill]

Sounds rediculous to me. How about peeing in the water while diving? Suppose that has an adverse effect on coral?

Actually, peeing in the water can have significant effects due to human (often shared mammalian or vertebrate) hormones in the urine. Even municipally treated water has these hormones, albeit probably at much higher concentrations due to the numbers, and they have been shown to interfere with the reproductive cycles of some marine vertebrates.

With that said, I do still pee in my wetsuit.

 

[drbill]

For the record, kraw...
- I'm not an environmentalist. I'm a realist. I believe in nuclear power, because oil is much more finite, and has a larger downside (in my opinion). I believe in intelligent expansion because it's both necessary, and inevitable. I believe in what makes sense for the greater good, long term.
- I have NO opinion on the veracity of the sunscreen studies. I haven't read them. The original post was to point to it, and let others form their own opinions. JUST to point to it.
- I have no problem with debating, when there's an issue to debate.
- I'm not shocked by anyone disagreeing with me about anything. Such is life. I'm simply, and eternally, perplexed by by common stupidity.
-- If I can throw a 5 cubic inch candy wrapper in the garbage instead of leaving it in the vast expanse of a national park with "millions and millions" of wooded acres, I'll do so.
-- If I can be cognizant of not wasting even a glass of water in Atlanta, even though there are still "billions and billions" of gallons left in Lake Lanier, I'll do so.
-- If there's even a 2% chance, that a damaging viral domino effect can occur on a reef, due to divers wearing sunscreen, according to a marine viral/coral researcher, then it's not a life-altering act to simply not use the stuff when I dive, until absolute evidence is presented one way or the other.

Bottom line, whether or not you care to take the studies seriously is your choice. I don't care. I'll form my own opinions, and act as I see fit. As will you. What *does* chap my ass is some fool diminishing the possibility of the damage WITHOUT knowing any more about it than I or anyone else does. That has nothing to do with debate.

PLEASE be careful with posts like this... they sound far too rational for most people.

 

[Papa_Bear]

The Ocean is an amazing place! It is very resilient, but we have to be good stewards of all the things we use! But how many people will die of Sun Cancer because they didn't wear sun screen. People first, are we going to get sun screen police? Unbelievable! A ton of sea water can hold 85 of the worlds basic elements. So you can probably find just about any chemical combination you can think of!

The complex spectrum of macro and trace minerals found in sea water is the result of the interaction of natural forces over millions of years; a process not yet fully understood by scientists. The trace elements of sea water should not be underestimated. For example, there is more gold in a ton of sea water than in a ton of good to average gold ore.

The problem is concentrations like nitrates in the Exumas, By themselves it might not be a problem, but add daisies in the Oconoderm population and then over fishing of fish like Parrotfish and a little sun block to kill algae would be great! Algae is killing the Bahamian Reefs!

Next I have been in the worlds oceans for over 40 years and there is no evidence that they are getting warmer at all!

Here is the big bomb! Global warming caused by man is political bull! It is the Orwellian enemy to control us all, don't by it! As for the reefs they are in whole in pretty good shape, but as in the Bahamas need to be tended, but it is a combination of things including a lack of big storms! Mitch saved the reefs of Roatan along with the government stopping over fishing on the reefs! This whole thing is complex and people are putting money before science and thats been going on for e while!

 

[BKP]

Cars kill coral, so don't drive, plastics kill coral so cut the use of that out of your life, electricity kills coral so don't use that, most farming kills more coral than sunscreen ever does, so don't eat.

Brilliant logic...

Congrats on your rationale...