Why do so many poorly skilled divers...

[bisugo767]

Bragging rights! Don't get me wrong, I am not a DM yet just your regular scuba enthusiast gaining more experience. I associate this problem with vehicle drivers on the road. All of us with a valid driver's license have gone through the books and studied the proper way to drive on the road. IMHO, a big part of being a stupid driver or in this case a dumb DM has a lot to do about attitude. It is not that they do not know the rules and safety guidelines about diving but they choose to ignore them for their own selfish reasons. It also has to do with their upbrining. If these kids' parents never taught them how to be responsible for their actions, thinking about others, common courtesy, and life ettiquettes then they grow up as self-centered individuals who are careless, rude, and stupid.

I feel for you, man. You are not alone. This is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to find a very good dive buddy. You keep searching. Does not mean you have a DM cert. you are a good and learned diver. Experience and good attitude is the only ultimate real c-card I strive to obtain. Keep on diving!

Phil (bisugo767)

want to be DM's?

OK, this is a negative post by definition given the title but it's something I run across everyday. There are exceptions of course but for the most part the worse divers I know all seem to be DM's or working on their DM certs. I don't get it.

I'm not talking about experienced divers with good skills who decide to become DM's for whatever reason. I'm talking about newer divers or experienced divers who don't have great skills. They all seem to want to be DM's. When they become a DM they have even less chance to dive and gain experience because they are now helping with a class every weekend.

There are many DM's who silt up the place when they dive, can't navigate or put their fins on without help, can't plan a dive in current and don't dive much other than to help with a class. I'm not talking about warm water destination DM's. I'm talking about non-professional local DM's. If these kinds of divers are role models to newer divers no wonder so many divers think being vertical is the norm and silting is no big deal.

It's great that so many people have the desire to teach and to help new students. It would be even better if they had to be good divers first before they could become a DM.

I went diving with 2 DM's the other night. One didn't signal when he decided to turn the dive at 100 fsw and race suddenly up the slope to 20 fsw and the other one got out of the water with 200 psi. I went diving with another DM who couldn't put on her own fins and self-admittedly couldn't navigate. All three of these divers rarely dive at the many great dive sites available in our area. When they do dive it's at the same place over and over.

I helped an instructor with a DM candidate where he had to lead a dive with "problem students". I was to be such a student and was to make his life a little harder but before I had a chance he silted the place up so badly that none of us could even see him as he "lead" the dive.

I guess it's not important that I figure this one out but I don't get it. Why are so many poor divers so enchanted by the DM cert?

 

[Stichus III]

No. By definition a newly certified instructor is "good". They have met all the requirements and expectations of the agency they are teaching through.

The students they certify will be "good " by the same definition. The parodox is that they may not look so good in the water. LOL

MikeFerrara,

Let me try it another way: by your definition, is a newly certified instructor always no good?

 

[scarefaceDM]

my my....

look at it this way ..there are MANY MANY BAD divers out there with huge ego's. Check out the size of there knives ...inturn show bad attitude.

Many divers are affraid to ask for help. Especially the experienced ones. Many cannot for the life of them find there way out of a paper bag let alone navigate to the corner store with out taking a wrong turn here and there.

As for dive skills...people tend to forget what they learn to only immitate there buddy. Whom mind you - is as crappy as they are. SO they learn to be even crappier...

Yes it is all in attitude. Bad attitudes seem to creap up as a diver gets more cocky and does more stupid dives to only boost ones ego. There are the divers that are EGO driven to do the big dives on air to only find themselves in chamber becasue they were stupid.

You may see bad DM'S but they are a minority. There are also bad instructors, bad tech divers and really bad divers in general....Bad dive store managers...Why single out the DM'S....there is bad everywhere.

You have to want to be better. You have to want to improve your skills. You have to want it period.

You just have to find the right one that fits your needs....and one that has the good attitude and better skills than you, so you can attain a higher skill set. A DM course, should by all accounts, teach you all the good skills one needs to be a good DM. It is the Instructor that has to be good in the end.

Stay off the bottom
Safe dives.

 

[JeffG]

MikeFerrara,

Let me try it another way: by your definition, is a newly certified instructor always no good?

No.


Try reading it this way.

Being good has nothing to do with being an instructor. Its not tested.

So an instructor could be good or bad.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Rock stars aren't created over night. Most of them play in crap clubs and bars for decades and live on Raman noodles before they get their big breaks.

LOL, I did all that too. I taught door to door, in damp basements of "music studios", played with tons of rock bands, the Red Sarlo Orchestra, was the 2nd 1/2 man in the Jack Ness Trio...but there were no big breaks. LOL

For most (many of which are a thousand times more talented than me or anyone you are likely to ever hear about) the business is about being a six night/week club musician...heck, that was back when clubs had live music. I don't know what they do for a living now.

Hank,
Stevie Ray Vaughn? IMO, no amount of work, practice or study will get you there. God either gives it to you or He doesn't.

Once, when I was teaching for Crecent Music in Glen Ellyn Il which was owned by Red Sarlo (who I mentioned above), a kid came in with a beat up guitar. He was looking for help getting it tuned. Red used to charge people for that but you tune one, take it outside into the cold and by the time you get it home and warmed up, it isn't tuned anymore. LOL, I tuned it and showed him a few things. No one was around so I didn't charge him.

About six months later, he came back in the store and said..."look what I learned". He was about the best that I've ever seen. If I played for a thousand years, I'd never touch him.

He had remembered me being pretty good and he asked me to work with him. We did some coffee houses and stuff, just the two of us (do they still have those?) and did some bigger clubs with the addition of a drummer and a base. It was MORE than I could do just to back him up. I remember him asking me "What happened, your playing used to be so clean?" Now, that was a wake-up call. LOL nothing had changed but his memory and point of view.

I mentioned the Jack Ness Trio above. Jack played a Hammond and could make it scream! He kept a valve trombone, a trumpet and a flute on stands next to him and could play the keyboard and any one of those at the same time with the other hand. I've seen him so drunk that he fell off the stool but his hands would still be sticking up in the air onto that keyboard and never miss a lick.

I could tell of others that I doubt anyone ever heard of. I suppose the music business is a little like the dive business in that the industry sells what it wants to sell. There's no requirement that it be any good and the people buying it usually don't know the difference. I listen to "talk radio" LOL

 

[MikeFerrara]

Originally Posted by Stichus III
MikeFerrara,

Let me try it another way: by your definition, is a newly certified instructor always no good?

No.


Try reading it this way.

Being good has nothing to do with being an instructor. Its not tested.

So an instructor could be good or bad.

Again, there is good by your definition and "good" by the agencies definition.

Anybody the agency signs off on as an instructor MUST be good by their definition. But...we might watch them work and not think they're so good.

 

[RiverRat]

LOL, I did all that too. I taught door to door, in damp basements of "music studios", played with tons of rock bands, the Red Sarlo Orchestra, was the 2nd 1/2 man in the Jack Ness Trio...but there were no big breaks. LOL

Man that explains it Mike! You've been beat up by the MUSIC biz AND the DIVE bizz. It's a wonder you're still alive

 

[Kingpatzer]

Anybody the agency signs off on as an instructor MUST be good by their definition. But...we might watch them work and not think they're so good.

Do you believe that this is in any way different from the legal profession, the medical profession, teachers, or, well, any other arena?

There is nothing wrong with people who know, or think, that they want to be instructors getting the training they need to work at that level and develop the skills necessary to succeed there. It is, of course, incumbant on those who are mentoring them to direct them to improve and provide timely and accurate critiques of their performance, but no one becomes a good teacher after just reaching the "classroom assistant level."

 

[Thalassamania]

MikeFerrara,

Let me try it another way: by your definition, is a newly certified instructor always no good?

Again, there is good by your definition and "good" by the agencies definition.

Anybody the agency signs off on as an instructor MUST be good by their definition. But...we might watch them work and not think they're so good.

It all depends on the criteria that are used for certification, every new instructor that I've certified I consider good enough to trust to teach my wife or child to dive.

 

[RiverRat]

It is, of course, incumbant on those who are mentoring them to direct them to improve and provide timely and accurate critiques of their performance, but no one becomes a good teacher after just reaching the "classroom assistant level."

No but the problem I see is that there IS NO MENTORING going on. At least during my tenure up to DM. Some, yes, but not much.

When I assist an Instructor with a class I'm LOOKING at that Instructor as much as or moreso than the students. I expect them to look pretty good in the water. What I see is many a sloppy Instructor going right into teaching. Even big classes with a LOT going on. Many of these Instructors are pool and quarry divers only, no real experience to offer. They bounce around like yo yo's silting up the place and putting knee marks on everything.