If you don't feel comfortable at a swim thru then don't do it. I generally hear them mentioned in dive briefs though.
Are swim-throughs really caverns?
- Thread starter Alex777
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Bobyjimmie
Contributor
When I was only a discover scuba student my first dive my DM I was following around lead me through a lava tube that was roughly 40 feet long at about 45 feet depth with no skylights. I had no idea that was a no no as a rec diver let alone a discover scuba. I was never uncomfortable and now I chuckle to myself when I go through similar things because I will always remember that.
I love this thread. I've always had question on many of these swimthru's I've done including Mary's Place, Punta Sur (Devil's Throat and other swim throughs) and others.
Just for discussion, let me throw out an incident that happened to me Labour Day at Punta Sur. The previous day, we dove Punta Sur (non-Devil's Throat) and the DM asked where we'd like to go the next day.
One of the group (An instructor) I had dived with all week said he'd like to do Devil's Throat. (He said he'd done it before, but, didn't really get to enjoy due to a panicked diver he had to escort to the surface on a previous trip) They were looking for 2 more people so my wife and I said we'd do it if that's what they needed to do the dive. (BTW, a dive light was required to do the swimthru by the DOP). We'd been diving with the other 3 people and were comfortable with their skills at depth. The next morning, the boat showed up with another 5 people from another resort who we hadn't been diving with. There were 2 groups and my group left the boat first and the second were going to follow in a few minutes so we weren't in the swimthru at the sametime.
Anyway, there are definitely a place that is pitch black and no visible light until you drop down the ledge until the opening is visibile. The dive was going fine, we came out around 117' from one swimthru and turned back into another swimthru. At that point, the DM was showing a huge crab to one of the other members of our group. They were taking their time, and, given our depth of around 110', it seemed a bit excessive to me. However, my bouyancy seemed particularly good to me and I was content to just float motionless behind them until the moved on. Then, 2 members(a husband and wife) of the group behind us came out from the first swimthru panicked. According to me wife, the wife flew out the first exit bumped into her, turned, kicked toward the second swimthru and 3 times smacked another diver in the head with her fins (never looking back) and started swimming on top of me while I'm backed up behind the DM and another member of our group (The first member of our group was already out of the swimthru taking pictures). Fortunately , the other diver(3 times kicked in the face) was able to keep his mask on his head. Next, as she swam over the top of me, her spouse started to swim under me but stopped after he saw his wife and 2 other divers in front of me. The wife was obviously having buoyancy problems as she floated to to top of the cave and wasn't able to go out the quick left exit which required about a 4 or 5 feet descent from where she was at. At this point, it seemed I should get out of the "swimthru/overhead environment" to limit the congestion. So, I went low out the quick left exit. The woman then (as I was told) pushed of the top of the "swimthru" on top of me as I was going out the exit. Anyway, after a couple of kicks to the head, she was out the opening. I stayed low and exited, turned, and waited for my wife and the rest of our group. (The spouse came out right after me). We did a slow ascent. My wife was a little alarmed since her computer went into deco mode during the commotion, but, the obligation was relieved during our slow ascent to 60 feet.
Anyway, fortunately there were no injuries on this dive. I'd do the dive again if I had more confidence in the people I was with. Still, It sure doesn't seem to be the safest thing to be doing while diving.
Any comments?
Just for discussion, let me throw out an incident that happened to me Labour Day at Punta Sur. The previous day, we dove Punta Sur (non-Devil's Throat) and the DM asked where we'd like to go the next day.
One of the group (An instructor) I had dived with all week said he'd like to do Devil's Throat. (He said he'd done it before, but, didn't really get to enjoy due to a panicked diver he had to escort to the surface on a previous trip) They were looking for 2 more people so my wife and I said we'd do it if that's what they needed to do the dive. (BTW, a dive light was required to do the swimthru by the DOP). We'd been diving with the other 3 people and were comfortable with their skills at depth. The next morning, the boat showed up with another 5 people from another resort who we hadn't been diving with. There were 2 groups and my group left the boat first and the second were going to follow in a few minutes so we weren't in the swimthru at the sametime.
Anyway, there are definitely a place that is pitch black and no visible light until you drop down the ledge until the opening is visibile. The dive was going fine, we came out around 117' from one swimthru and turned back into another swimthru. At that point, the DM was showing a huge crab to one of the other members of our group. They were taking their time, and, given our depth of around 110', it seemed a bit excessive to me. However, my bouyancy seemed particularly good to me and I was content to just float motionless behind them until the moved on. Then, 2 members(a husband and wife) of the group behind us came out from the first swimthru panicked. According to me wife, the wife flew out the first exit bumped into her, turned, kicked toward the second swimthru and 3 times smacked another diver in the head with her fins (never looking back) and started swimming on top of me while I'm backed up behind the DM and another member of our group (The first member of our group was already out of the swimthru taking pictures). Fortunately , the other diver(3 times kicked in the face) was able to keep his mask on his head. Next, as she swam over the top of me, her spouse started to swim under me but stopped after he saw his wife and 2 other divers in front of me. The wife was obviously having buoyancy problems as she floated to to top of the cave and wasn't able to go out the quick left exit which required about a 4 or 5 feet descent from where she was at. At this point, it seemed I should get out of the "swimthru/overhead environment" to limit the congestion. So, I went low out the quick left exit. The woman then (as I was told) pushed of the top of the "swimthru" on top of me as I was going out the exit. Anyway, after a couple of kicks to the head, she was out the opening. I stayed low and exited, turned, and waited for my wife and the rest of our group. (The spouse came out right after me). We did a slow ascent. My wife was a little alarmed since her computer went into deco mode during the commotion, but, the obligation was relieved during our slow ascent to 60 feet.
Anyway, fortunately there were no injuries on this dive. I'd do the dive again if I had more confidence in the people I was with. Still, It sure doesn't seem to be the safest thing to be doing while diving.
Any comments?
irishsquid
Contributor
Nice thread!! My only ocean dive included a swim through on a wreck.
There was multiple openings/exits, all visible from the entrance, with a large granular sediment that almost wouldn't silt. It settled in a few seconds if stirred. I almost didn't follow the DM through as it was my 1st ocean dive, deeper than I've been to that date, and I remembered the OW course; NEVER go in an overhead environment. After looking it over, I decided I would be OK and followed. Very enjoyable w/o the hazards. As of today, with the little experience I have, I still keep a clear path to the surface. Someday, I may get training for limited overhead diving.
There was multiple openings/exits, all visible from the entrance, with a large granular sediment that almost wouldn't silt. It settled in a few seconds if stirred. I almost didn't follow the DM through as it was my 1st ocean dive, deeper than I've been to that date, and I remembered the OW course; NEVER go in an overhead environment. After looking it over, I decided I would be OK and followed. Very enjoyable w/o the hazards. As of today, with the little experience I have, I still keep a clear path to the surface. Someday, I may get training for limited overhead diving.
Unless it's a wreck or an arch that is not wider than the diver's body is long, a swim through is a cavern. Go for it if you like, many swim throughs are relatively safe, but they are caverns.
While it's been over 20 years since I dived Mary's Crack in Roatan, I don't remember it as having an overhead at all. It is considerably deeper than the 80 - 90 fsw reported. I logged 120 feet on that dive, but did not log it as a cavern dive. I did see Indigo Hamlets there.
Neither would meet Rick's definition.
Blue Grotto's horseshoe fails this test.
Paradise fails this test.
Alex777:
BTravlin:
While it's been over 20 years since I dived Mary's Crack in Roatan, I don't remember it as having an overhead at all. It is considerably deeper than the 80 - 90 fsw reported. I logged 120 feet on that dive, but did not log it as a cavern dive. I did see Indigo Hamlets there.
spectrum:
Neither would meet Rick's definition.
Blue Grotto's horseshoe fails this test.
Paradise fails this test.
Yes, very fortunate. My dive buddy has a similar story from Devil's Throat when another diver panicked in the overhead. Depth and overhead is a bad combination. While it can be done, I agree that it's not the safest thing to be doing while diving.
Since it's a "signature" dive, I admit that I am interested. However, I haven't figured out on what conditions I would do it. Maybe this will just be one of those dives that I never do. Reward may not justify the risk.
hudson
Contributor
Berick's story sums it up. I did Devil's Throat and the same could have easily happened to me. At the minimum it is best to refuse ones with navigation or silt issues, longer ones in groups where if someone panics you can't quickly exit, and if you'll ever have to single file through make sure you and your buddy have a protocol to handle an emergency halfway through. Unfortunately the Devil's Throat dive has all these problems plus excessive depth.
Having said that a redundant air source (pony/doubles, not spare air
) goes a long long way to alleviate most of the issues except navigation/silt, given you are comfortable with other potential problems such as buoyancy, mask loss etc.
Having said that a redundant air source (pony/doubles, not spare air
) goes a long long way to alleviate most of the issues except navigation/silt, given you are comfortable with other potential problems such as buoyancy, mask loss etc.
I let my newly certified divers do the Ballroom if they wish after my explanation of why the overhead is considered "safe" for OW divers. Here's part of my briefing:
"An overhead environment does not forgive mistakes, screw up any part of your dive plan and you'll probably die in the Ballroom. The flow is strong enough to eventually force your body out into the pool so nobody has to risk their life to give your family something to bury. THAT is why the Ballroom is considered OW safe."
The first time I went there with students I was stunned to find out you could do night dives in the Ballroom without a cave cert. I didn't know they illuminated the pool so you can easily see the exit. I still put a strobe on the line just in case. The employee was more concerned about me doing a drift dive in the river from the Devil Run to Ginnie's Run with new divers than he was with me giving them the option to do the cavern because "You know how new divers are"
Ber :lilbunny:
I let my newly certified divers do the Ballroom if they wish after my explanation of why the overhead is considered "safe" for OW divers. Here's part of my briefing:
"An overhead environment does not forgive mistakes, screw up any part of your dive plan and you'll probably die in the Ballroom. The flow is strong enough to eventually force your body out into the pool so nobody has to risk their life to give your family something to bury. THAT is why the Ballroom is considered OW safe."
The first time I went there with students I was stunned to find out you could do night dives in the Ballroom without a cave cert. I didn't know they illuminated the pool so you can easily see the exit. I still put a strobe on the line just in case. The employee was more concerned about me doing a drift dive in the river from the Devil Run to Ginnie's Run with new divers than he was with me giving them the option to do the cavern because "You know how new divers are"
Ber :lilbunny:
I'm not sure where the idea of an "OW safe cavern" came from. As far as I can tell it's a fabrication of the property owners and dive ops who charge admission.
Personally, I wouldn't spend any money at Ginnie and I wouldn't do a dive like Devils Throat in a line of OW divers in rec gear if they were paying me. Heck, I wouldn't care to do the dive in rec gear even without the OW divers.
I did it a few years back, and I was in the middle with 3 divers in front and 3 divers behind me.
That dive certainly goes near the top of my "stupidest things I've done" list.
Now that I have a bunch more training and I am more qualified to do that dive, I'm smart enough not to.
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