Whaling new thread...

[diversteve]

New Questions:

Has anyone here (who has voiced a loud opinion) actually had a first-hand encounter with a cetacean outside of an amusement park, or Oceanarium? No one has answered that question to my best recollection.

X

I've had encounters with Humpback Whales. I've heard them sing off Maui and I've seen them fairly up-close on whale watching excursions off San Diego.

I've also dove with Dolphins on a reef. I agree with your position that both animals are sentient beings and deserve more protection than lower down members of the food chain. As the apex predators on this planet we fortunately (or unfortunately) decide and control that.

Although my position wouldn't be any different if I'd never encountered whales in person.

My position - and it can be debated endlessly - is that I don't per se object to the hunting of fish/mammals when it is done in a responsible manner. I've done some hunting (unsuccessfully), fishing and might try spearfishing but I would eat what I killed and I wouldn't indiscriminately slaughter every animal nearby.

The Japanese govt. has IN MY OPINION through their Fisheries department violated the IWC ban on commercial whaling. Or at least the intent of it. Using a loophole in the treaty and claiming the killings are for scientific research seems to me oddly out of proportion with the size and scope of their operations.

And defining target quantities for this season is not open to interpretation, it's not by-catch when it's being done intentionally.

Their stated objective of hunting with the intent of killing 25 Humpbacks, 25 (or was it 50) Finbacks and 930 Minke whales is IN MY OPINION not being done for scientific purposes but for profit. The company that runs the whaling operations for the scientists is a known commercial entity.

And the funding for the non-profit "research" operation is provided by this for profit entity and a consortium of ex-whaling corporations. IN MY OPINION this is a clear indication that this is a for profit venture.

If it wasn't why don't the "scientists" donate the "useless" whale meat to charity. Instead it's sold for profit - I think I read it yields 60 (6?) Million dollars annually. Most non-profits wish they could make a $60M annual profit...

And as far as the hunting analogy. Sending an 8000 ton Commercial Processing Vessel to sea with a fleet of smaller chase boats equipped with explosive tipped harpoons can't possibly meet any reasonable definition of "sport". Or scientific "research"

And even if you justify the killing of the 25 Humpbacks for research purposes, why do they plan to take 935 Minke whales? Why not 25 of those also?

So I've made my decision and thrown in with the "terrorists"

What good are you doing? Blowing off opinion here on SB might be entertaining, but in the long run probably doe little to affect opinion, or initiate positive change.

I presently financially support Greenpeace and the Sea Shepherd Society and in the past have supported Manta.org and the WWF - among others.

I just e-mailed my congressman in support of Greenpeace's efforts to stop the whaling. I also signed the anti-shark finning petition circulated here recently and e-mailed McDonalds to stop the selling of sharkfin soup in their overseas operations.

Does that make me a terrorist by definition? If so, that's a position I'm proud to be associated with.

If Paul Watson can save even one Humpback by interceding with his boat in the whaling operations, I will consider my money very well spent.

Some things are just worth preserving...

Disclaimer: Anything posted here not clearly stated as fact is my opinion. Agree or disagree it's your prerogative. Just be nice about it...

 

[deeper thoughts]

If you research it a bit I think you'll find that the greatest threat to whale populations today is climate change and changing sea temperatures - not hunting.

Thats not much help to the whales in Japan or Norway today is it?

 

[Tigerman]

Thats not much help to the whales in Japan or Norway today is it?

The whales hunted in Norway is not threatened by extinction and why would it be worse to be shot in the brain with an explosive projectile than dieing a slow and painful death due to climate changes?

 

[Kim]

The Japanese govt. has through their Fisheries department violated the IWC ban on commercial whaling. Or at least the intent of it. That's a fact, not an opinion - ban means no whaling period...

I'm afraid it's simply opinion, not fact.

The Japanese conduct "scientific hunting" under a provision in the convention that permits it:

Pursuant to Article VIII, paragraph 1 of the Convention, any country that wishes to conduct scientific research on whales may invoke the scientific research provision as an exception to an IWC regulation.
“Notwithstanding anything contained in this Convention, any Contracting Government may grant to any of its nationals a special permit authorizing that nation to kill, take, and treat whales for purposes of scientific research subject to such restrictions as to number and subject to such other conditions as the Contracting Government thinks fit and the kill, taking, and treating of whales in accordance with the provisions of this Article shall be exempt from the operation of the Convention.[26]

Now while I'm sure that many will have differing opinions as to what the Japanese are doing that's all they can be - opinions.

It doesn't really matter what everyone else thinks on this issue - while the Japanese claim this exception they actually have every right to do what they are doing by the actual wording of the IWC Convention.

 

[deeper thoughts]

The whales hunted in Norway is not threatened by extinction and why would it be worse to be shot in the brain with an explosive projectile than dieing a slow and painful death due to climate changes?

Ok if thats your position, you read mine and I am not convinced about "climate change" so I still would rather save the animals then the carbon.

 

[Kim]

Thats not much help to the whales in Japan or Norway today is it?

What isn't? That the very people complaining about whales being hunted are actually killing them by way of the pollution they insist on creating?

No - it's probably not much help at all.

I wonder how humane starving to death is.

 

[diversteve]

I'm afraid it's simply opinion, not fact.

The Japanese conduct "scientific hunting" under a provision in the convention that permits it:



Now while I'm sure that many will have differing opinions as to what the Japanese are doing that's all they can be - opinions.

It doesn't really matter what everyone else thinks on this issue - while the Japanese claim this exception they actually have every right to do what they are doing by the actual wording of the IWC Convention.

I'll concede that point - and have edited my previous post for clarity.

But I still maintain that they are violating the intent of the treaty with their stated objectives. But that's just my opinion...

 

[deeper thoughts]

What isn't? That the very people complaining about whales being hunted are actually killing them by way of the pollution they insist on creating?

No - it's probably not much help at all.

I wonder how humane starving to death is.

Sounds good I guess

 

[Tigerman]

Ok if thats your position, you read mine and I am not convinced about "climate change" so I still would rather save the animals then the carbon.

From someone calling themselves "deeper thoughts" Id really expected better arguments than "pfft, what climate change?".. Im somewhat disappointed

 

[deeper thoughts]

From someone calling themselves "deeper thoughts" Id really expected better arguments than "pfft, what climate change?".. Im somewhat disappointed

Please I am still trying to get over the "ice age" that the consensus of the scientist said in the 1970s and this will be my last post so the thread is not hijacked.

Good Bye and Good Night