Dangerous Divers

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There really seem to be almost two threads going on here: (1) what should you do about a diver you know - or believe - to act dangerously, and (2) whether people should be allowed to dive with a range of medical conditions. It's really two different things, I think: divers in case (1) are choosing to act dangerously or don't know enough not to, divers in case (2) are choosing to ignore a potential danger to themselves, but hopefully are doing so knowing the risk they are taking. I suspect that the wilfully dangerous are the ones the OP is worrying about: they're the ones who are most likely to take someone with them.

With divers who are being idiots, I think it's reasonable for demonstrably more experienced divers - and certainly for dive leaders or instructors - to have a quiet word about the diver's actions. The 'dangerous' diver might learn something, or might be able to present a reasonable argument as to why they dive as they do (in which case, hey, we're all different, you don't have to follow them), or might just tell you where to go - in which case, I guess you can now avoid diving with them or tell others about them and have a clear conscience.

With medical issues, it's harder. Generally, if divers are aware of what they're risking, I reckon good luck to them. Failing eyesight, wandering sanity, possibly obesity... That'll be me one day, and I'm willing to bet I won't give up diving. The one that I do struggle with is diabetes. I know that the RSTC and most of the training agencies say it's ok with medical permission, but I've seen how fast hypoglycaemia can set in and I've seen the sort of circulatory-system damage diabetes can do. When I've had people with diabetes ask about dive training, I've told them that they can get medical clearance and do dive courses, but I'm not prepared to take responsibility for the level of risk I believe that people with diabetes (certainly insulin-controlled) are taking on. Which has mostly been accepted with good grace, except for the guy that kept waving the diving medical book I showed him at me and demanding to know how doctors could know anything about diabetes...

As for what almitywife says about Australia, check here:

SPUMS - SPUMS Statements on Diabetes

for what the South Pacific Underwater Medical Society has to say. Coupled with what I've seen, it reinforces my - entirely personal - decision on teaching and diabetes. Anybody else is quite within their rights to follow the medical guidelines laid down by DAN and the RSTC. I'm not saying that people with diabetes should all be herded into dry internment camps and never allowed near the water, only that I don't want to profit from helping them take what I perceive as a risk. Obviously, since we're talking about dive instruction, I'm using 'profit' very loosely...
 
Well Almighty, I gotta say that I didn't know much about diving requirements in Oz, but after researching it and the requirements under AS4005.1 and the SPUMS website....wow. Tough to become a diver down under! You gotta be tip top and athletic. Almost sounds like it was back in the 60's here.

Must you also speak French and have no more than 3% body fat?;)

well personal experience - i took myself out of the water due to obesity and lost about 100lbs before i allowed myself into the water. was i a danger to myself, yes i considered it so, was i a danger to my buddy, possibliy if a rescue was required and they would ahve slipped a disc trying to haul my big butt outta the water ;) (still got aways to go but getting there)

my response to OP was what would he classify as dangerous and i gave a few personal examples i have experienced

cheers
 
Define dangerous ... in diving parlance it often boils down to someone who dives in a manner that you wouldn't choose to dive. In some people's view, that includes people who do deep dives on air, or solo divers, or people who kick up silt, or people who don't have good buddy skills.

Would I warn people about these divers? Probably not ... depends on the circumstances. In some cases, I offer to dive with them ... in the hope that setting a good example might help them change their ways. Sometimes it even works out that way.

But I've learned to make a distinction between people who choose to dive differently than me and people who are truly dangerous. In the former case, it's just not my place to impose my standards on others (unless they're taking a class from me, of course) ... whatever additional risks I think they're taking by diving as they do.

Now, the local instructor who thought it would be neat to take his AOW students to 200 feet on AL80's ... at night ... HIM I'd warn people to stay away from. Of course, seein's how one of his students died attempting that dive makes it unnecessary for me to do say anything.

As Kirsten put it ... around here, people pretty much know who the dangerous divers are, and just decline to dive with them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Just my $.02

As a relatively new diver I make an effort to find others to dive with that I can learn from.
As I am able I actively seek people who (I hope) will present a good & safe example for me to follow & learn from.

If you observe what you consider unsafe behavior in another diver that I may be diving with I want to know! I agree that how that information is conveyed is a sensative subject.

As I do depend on my buddy to assist me if I should need I also want to be someone others can depend on to do the same. I would rather decline a dive or limit the dive to a much more conservative profile if my buddy is not up to being part of a safe and dependable team.

I have allready experienced the necessity of assisting another diver with an equipment issue
that he could not correct himself. That really brought home the importance of diving with a buddy.
 
Almity,

This is a thread about Dangerous Divers. When you "called out" the insulin dependent instructor in this thread you are calling him a dangerous diver. Given the advances that are being made in monitoring and controlling diabetes, and that DAN recognizes this, I considered it unfair for you to single out that instructor. I suspect that you live within a relatively small dive community and that some of his students or prospective students may read this and know exactly who you're talking about. I have no issue with your other examples.
 
Almity,

This is a thread about Dangerous Divers. When you "called out" the insulin dependent instructor in this thread you are calling him a dangerous diver. Given the advances that are being made in monitoring and controlling diabetes, and that DAN recognizes this, I considered it unfair for you to single out that instructor. I suspect that you live within a relatively small dive community and that some of his students or prospective students may read this and know exactly who you're talking about. I have no issue with your other examples.

Yes, but do you have an issue with Almighty asking whether the OP considered the diabetic instructor to be dangerous or not. Some people would, others wouldn't. Almighty didn't say whether she considered him dangerous or not. She was asking for other's opinions. Reading comprehension, you should try it some time.
 
Quote NWGD:

"Define dangerous ... in diving parlance it often boils down to someone who dives in a manner that you wouldn't choose to dive. In some people's view, that includes people who do deep dives on air, or solo divers, or people who kick up silt, or people who don't have good buddy skills."


I spear silt kickers--does that make me a dangerous diver--I hope so?

N
 
that would be funny, IF it wasn't true :D
 

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