Help improve diver training — 4-minute anonymous survey (student research)

[boulderjohn]

That inconsistency is exactly why this study is important: by examining how divers recall and apply their training limits, we can better understand real-world practices and identify areas for improvement.

You still appear not to understand. You seem to be using the word "limit" as if it were some kind of legal standard rather than a guideline. Whatever those "limits" are, agency to agency, they are only truly limits when they apply to dives being done during certification classes. They do not apply to personal diving except as guidelines. Students are advised to extend those "limits" through experience and training, which means they are not limits as the word is commonly understood.

 

[Espresso Explorer]

Couple of comments about the questions and the answers I submitted:
Have you ever knowingly exceeded any limits of your certification (depth, gas, decompression, etc.)? - yes I have

How often have you knowingly exceeded any limits of you certification - Regularly (6+ times)

Now on your data (based on your criteria) you have an experienced diver who dives often, has high level of certification and regularly breaks the limits.

In reality I was occasionally pushing or slightly exceeding my no-deco limit before. I decided to take further training to improve my knowledge and certification, and have not exceeded the limits at all while having my current certification which covers more than 50% of my dives. Maybe I misinterpreted your question to consider the whole personal diving history, maybe the wording of the question could have been better.

 

[boulderjohn]

I want to illustrate my fear about the potential here by telling the story of a hypothetical diver, Tom.

Tom was certified as an OW diver, with the training dives limited by standards to 60 feet/18 meters. The course materials made it plain that he should use that depth a guideline for maximum depth until he extended those limits through training and experience. Tom then spent a week diving in Roatan, Honduras, where he regularly dived in the 60-75 feet (18-23 meters) range. He felt comfortable at those depths. On a later vacation, he went to Cozumel, Mexico, where the first dive of each day had the divemaster lead his group to maximum depths from 75 feet to 100 feet (23-30 meters). Tom felt comfortable on those dives.

The maximum depth limit of Tom's original training was 60 feet/18 meters, but he had effectively extended his personal depth limits well beyond that.

When divers have personal experience extending the original depth limits of their certification, those original limits are in most cases irrelevant. If Tom were to sign up for a 100-foot dive in some places, a dive operator might require an advanced certification, but that is a rule of the dive operation. It has no meaning outside of that dive operation.

If Malta wants to establish a rule saying that divers must limit dives to the initial training limits of their certification, that is within their rights. Based on their two recent prosecutions, though, I fear they will not make such a rule but will instead prosecute divers based on the mistaken belief that those initial training limits are a limit for all personal dives.

 

[johndiver999]

That’s exactly the kind of pattern we’re hoping to test in this study. In fact, your observation about procedural confidence degrading after periods of inactivity (and the resulting drift from safety rules unless refreshers are done) aligns almost perfectly with one of our core hypotheses.
We also hypothesized that demographic variables (including gender, experience level, and time since last dive or last training) would correlate with deviations from taught safety limits. Your insight about female recreational divers in the 20–28 age range is particularly interesting, and is the kind of subgroup-level nuance that could emerge in our data.
I really appreciate you sharing those firsthand observations. If you have any anecdotal examples about how quickly the drop-off seems to occur, or whether certain refresher strategies helped, I’d love to hear more (if you’re willing). Either way, thanks again for contributing — this is exactly the kind of community input that strengthens the research.
— Victor

LOL singling out young females as being a problem (are we talking driving or diving here?).

I view men as being a greater problem than females (as a very broad generalization).

In my experience, women will voice their concern, make their apprehensions known and often find a way to bail out of a dive they are uncomfortable with, before it even starts. I've more commonly seen, SOME, type A men, try to do the challenging dive, never ask for help, until they are completely overwhelmed and then freak out on a dive and endanger everyone.

In my experience, people get in trouble during a dive because it is outside of their comfort and skill level. This does not necessarily correlate well with simply the depth of the dive nor the training depths that were initially used. Depth is only one factor in the array of challenges and stress inducing factors, particularly in a recreational setting.

Even if there is some detectable variance in gender related risk taking, what possible use is that? Are we going to have different (training) standards based on gender?

 

[Edward3c]

You still appear not to understand. You seem to be using the word "limit" as if it were some kind of legal standard rather than a guideline. Whatever those "limits" are, agency to agency, they are only truly limits when they apply to dives being done during certification classes. They do not apply to personal diving except as guidelines. Students are advised to extend those "limits" through experience and training, which means they are not limits as the word is commonly understood.

In Malta a dive depth limit is considered law under their Recreational Diving Regulations.

 

[Edward3c]

Survey completed.

 

[boulderjohn]

In Malta a dive depth limit is considered law under their Recreational Diving Regulations.

Can you be specific? What is the legal limit there?

 

[boulderjohn]

Promote continuous education, through ongoing training programs or refresher courses, particularly for divers who have long interruptions in their diving activity. Such programs can help reduce skill deterioration and minimize the risk of incidents.

Dive agencies already offer and promote refresher courses. They also promote continuing education, but in sites like ScubaBoard, continuing education is mocked as an "agency money grab."

 

[ImpotentSeaSnake]

LOL singling out young females as being a problem (are we talking driving or diving here?).

lolz

 

[Edward3c]

Can you be specific? What is the legal limit there?

See the regulations here, it’s past of the written risk assessment.