Is Egypt Getting an Unfair Reputation When It Comes to Liveaboards?

[Nick_Radov]

Another problem with for example Agressor is that they write: approx 18 dives. So this means it can be 16 or it can be 20. But maybe max 3 dives a day? What are you doing all that other hours on that boat?
Offer 4 dives a day for the same price and the prices are getting a little bit better. And tell how much dives you really get. Not approximately.

Regardless of boat policies, doing 4 dives per day for multiple days in a row is a little sketchy from a DCS perspective. The numbers on your dive computer might look fine but none of our deco models have ever been experimentally validated for that level of repetitive diving. Need a little more surface interval for the residual bubbles to resolve (unless you're staying really shallow).

I know some divers do this and get away with it. But maybe we shouldn't be so concerned with getting our money's worth. Especially when we don't have quick access to a chamber.

 

[boulderjohn]

Regardless of boat policies, doing 4 dives per day for multiple days in a row is a little sketchy from a DCS perspective. The numbers on your dive computer might look fine but none of our deco models have ever been experimentally validated for that level of repetitive diving.

As you say, it has not been validated--we just don't know. But here is some information I learned in the past from a presentation at our dive shop from a DAN representative about 15 years ago. What follows is a bit fuzzy in the details because of memory, but the big idea is accurate.

IIRC, with divers on multiple day trips, 80% of the DCS cases happened on the first day. Of those, 80% happened on the first dive.

We in ski country know an old joke in which someone says 100% of the serious ski accidents happened on the last run of the day, the joke being that if it was a serious accident, the skier did not ski again. Similarly, people who get DCS the first day do not go on the dive the second day, usually. So that is obviously a factor in this, but I recall doing the statistics and deciding that the numbers we were given really were statistically significant.

So a least those numbers do not support the idea that multiple day diving increases DCS risk--just the opposite. We had a SB discussion about it around then, and IIRC correctly, some of the old timers argued that multiple diving on multiple days built something of an immunity. Who knows?

 

[NothingClever]

Blue Planet Liveaboards, which operates four boats: Blue, Blue Pearl, Blue Storm, and Blue Seas.

That's one LOB operation out of 64 listed on liveaboard.com.

I'm feeling charitable - 4 out of 64.

That's a 6% success rate.

Are we ready to call that a win for the Egyptian dive industry?

 

[Germie]

As you say, it has not been validated--we just don't know. But here is some information I learned in the past from a presentation at our dive shop from a DAN representative about 15 years ago. What follows is a bit fuzzy in the details because of memory, but the big idea is accurate.

IIRC, with divers on multiple day trips, 80% of the DCS cases happened on the first day. Of those, 80% happened on the first dive.

We in ski country know an old joke in which someone says 100% of the serious ski accidents happened on the last run of the day, the joke being that if it was a serious accident, the skier did not ski again. Similarly, people who get DCS the first day do not go on the dive the second day, usually. So that is obviously a factor in this, but I recall doing the statistics and deciding that the numbers we were given really were statistically significant.

So a least those numbers do not support the idea that multiple day diving increases DCS risk--just the opposite. We had a SB discussion about it around then, and IIRC correctly, some of the old timers argued that multiple diving on multiple days built something of an immunity. Who knows?

And it seems that if you are a DM or instructor and work in divingbusiness on a 6 day working day that the biggest chance of getting bent is after your day off. So then it is again the same as the first day.

I always do on holiday 4 dives a day. Of course there is some personal difference, but a lot depends also of the profile you dive. Just from 25m and then do a safetystop and that's it? Better is then the 12-9-6m 1 minute stop and go up from 12m with 3m per minute. Do then your safety stop and go up from 5m with 1m per minute. A quite commont technique used in technical diving, but not in recreational diving. Yes, you will be some minutes longer in the water, but if a divecenter cannot accept this, then it is not really concerned about safety. It does not cost gas, everybody can go up from 5m slowly if there is only 20 bars left in you tank. So if you hold the more normal 50 to 30 bars, the tank is not drained, there is no risk and there is no moisture getting in the tank.

 

[BoltSnap]

Food and cleanliness is excellent.
Water, softdrinks, juices, coffee, tea and snack (sweet and savory) are available all the time with no surcharge. Alcohol is not available, at least when i was there.
Full CCR and Trimix support, two zodiacs with robust and stable ladders and the boat has s lift. Step on it half submerged and you'll be lifted level to the lower level of the dive deck.
I found it to be very comfortable, altough if you have one of the two cabins that neighbor the engine room, the generators will sing you a lullaby since they run basically 24/7. It didn't bother me and i slept like a rock.
Safety is good, the emergency and dive briefings were very thorough. Life vests and fire extinguishers in every cabin, luggage or gear laying around on the floor is not accepted.

Potential shortcomings:
It's not the biggest boat, so stow your stuff smart and don't run around on the dive deck like a headless chicken
It's also not that cheap. A 7 night trip is around 1000-1200€, that's without cylinders (Al80 twinset 70€/week), Nitrox flatrate (150€) and some other small stuff.
But again, no limits regarding time and depth and an awesome crew, well worth it imo.

If they have no depth or time limits on dives, how do they schedule the dives during the diving day? Wouldn't people who stay longer underwater delay the rest of the diving day's schedule?

 

[gamon]

Wouldn't people who stay longer underwater delay the rest of the diving day's schedule?

On the liveaboards I've been on, there's plenty of time to get your dives in. Usually it's 2 dives on a morning site, and 2 dives in the evening. Breakfast follows the first morning dive and lunch follows the second.

After lunch the boat is moved to the site where the boat will stay overnight. Both afternoon dives are done before dinner, if someone wants to do a night dive they usually skip one of the afternoon dives.

The daily schedule of meals is clearly posted.

Diving makes people hungry. No one's going to miss lunch or dinner.

 

[BoltSnap]

On the liveaboards I've been on, there's plenty of time to get your dives in. Usually it's 2 dives on a morning site, and 2 dives in the evening. Breakfast follows the first morning dive and lunch follows the second.

After lunch the boat is moved to the site where the boat will stay overnight. Both afternoon dives are done before dinner, if someone wants to do a night dive they usually skip one of the afternoon dives.

The daily schedule of meals is clearly posted.

Diving makes people hungry. No one's going to miss lunch or dinner.

I know that, but I was speaking to @iliketopetsharks about the liveaboard he recommended, which doesn't have limits on dive time and depths for its clients.

 

[gamon]

I know that, but I was speaking to @iliketopetsharks about the liveaboard he recommended, which doesn't have limits on dive time and depths for its clients.

It's probably not a stretch to assume they work the same way.

 

[BoltSnap]

It's probably not a stretch to assume they work the same way.

So, if I stay shallow and I am good on air and can stay UW for 90 minutes on every dive, it is OK and the boat will keep their 4 dives per day schedule?

 

[gamon]

So, if I stay shallow and I am good on air and can stay UW for 90 minutes on every dive, it is OK and the boat will keep their 4 dives per day schedule?

I'm quite certain it doesn't work that way. Although no specific depth or time limitations are imposed, the daily schedule of meals and boat moving times are posted, and divers are required to plan their dives around that. I suppose one could sacrifice breakfast for a 3 hour rebreather dive but can't extend the dive to the point that the planned time to relocate the boat is delayed.

And no one is going to miss dinner.