Review Diving the Avelo System

[DougD72]

My daughter and I were thinking of doing the Avelo training next week but didnt realize how expensive it is. So before we spend more then $1k, I have a few basic questions....
1. Can you use nitrox with the avelo system? I dont see why you wouldnt be able to but thought I would ask first. I searched this thread and their website FAQs and didnt see it addressed.
2. Is bottom time comparable to a typical AL 80 load? Longer? Shorter? I typically dive a steel 100 for the extra gas, so if this system is less than an AL80 to begin with then it wont appeal to me.
3. How do you monitor pressure if it changes with compression of bladder? ie how do I know when I hit my typical 1,000psi or 500psi etc etc.

 

[inquis]

@DougD72 - Ask the specific Avelo facility for better info. In general,
1. Nitrox is fine if the facility has that capability. Nothing about the system prevents it.
2. Tank will need to be filled to ~3400 psi / 233 bar to match an AL80. That's on the facility to arrange.
3. They'll teach you how to safely monitor pressure.

Regarding #2: Be aware that a "boosted fill" has a trade-off: more gas cuts into the buoyancy reduction. I believe the maximum fill while retaining a 2 lb buoyancy swing is equivalent to 8% more than an AL80. Upthread there are statements about starting neutral on the surface (instead of their standard practice of being positive by 2 lbs), but that sounds sketchy to me.

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

@DougD72 Inquis got most of your questions, but just to explain further: From what I've been told on here, you can get a fill equal to an AL 80 on Avelo, but frequently don't/won't, due to the relatively high pressure required and the fact that it makes it harder to adjust your weight using the ballast pump. You'll definitely be shortening your gas load compared to your typical 100 by a lot. Now, Avelo claims you'll get some of that back by being more streamline, and I believe @scubadada said after a few dives to get comfortable with the system he saw some improvements, but overall it does limit your gas capacity.

Pressure monitoring is done via air integrated computer with "Avelo Mode" which as I understand it, gives you a percentage that you then use to find your remaining "start pressure." And yes, the system is rather expensive. IMO, they ought to at least offer the online portion of the course for free, so people can get knowledge of the system/training and see if they think it's a good fit before spending the money on the full course. Since Avelo could then simply charge the same amount for the in person portion of the course, they would lose no money, and probably gain some customers/goodwill. They have yet to do this, though perhaps at some point they will.

 

[DougD72]

So the short answer is, other than a hot load fill, its typically less gas than an AL80 which is already short for me. Right?

Sounds like the system isnt for me then, unless they release larger tanks in the future. Thanks for saving me $1200, for two people, in training costs guys. (Sorry but the training price is RIDICULOUS)

@inquis Regarding #3: I was asking here rather than waiting for the training course because as I said in my initial post I was still trying to determine if it was worth even taking the class. It appears its isnt.

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

@DougD72 That is my understanding, yes. Someone who has actually used the system feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it's definitely less air than HP 100. If you really wanted to, you might could do something along the lines of mounting an AL 40 or something, but unequal doubles/spare tanks tends to draw a lot of criticism, and you'd be losing a lot of the streamlining and weight benefits Avelo is offering.

And as for the training cost, I think Avelo considers themselves to be about on par with the OW course, which costs about that much. My issue is, at least last I heard, you need to have also taken OW to take the Avelo course. A "bundled" option would interesting, but I suppose you'd run afoul of Avelo not being able to perform some OW skills, like orally inflating the BC, and thus technically not fulfilling requirements.

 

[inquis]

Sounds like the system isnt for me then, unless they release larger tanks in the future.

FYI, the largest cylinder they have at present is 10 liters. So yeah, perhaps re-evaluate in the future if you see news of something larger. An HP100 is 12.9 liters.

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

@inquis Do you know why they don't offer anything larger? It seemed weird to me that they have a small option, and a normal sized option, but no large option. Is there some sort of design limitation, or did they just think 10L was big enough? It feels like, given that their 10L will often be filled to lower capacity than an AL 80, they would make that the "small" option and offer a "regular" 12L tank, which, IIRC, is the same size as an AL 80 in any case.

 

[scubadada]

Hi @DougD72

The response by @inquis is accurate. I would also recommend you contact Avelo with your questions

Avelo - Contact

diveavelo.com

I will share my experience:

1) All 13 of my Avelo dives in Bonaire were on air (2 certification, 2 guided, 9 independent). Though I dive nitrox in Bonaire, nitrox is not necessary for NDL diving and I did not ask for nitrox fills. I also see no reason you could not dive nitrox with the Avelo System.

2) The larger, regular cylinder is 300 bar/4350 psi, 10 L . My fills were between 3000 and 3300 psi, so a little less to the same as an AL80. At a higher fill pressure, you would still have less gas than a fully filled HP100. See previous post by @inquis

Review Post in thread 'Diving the Avelo System'

Dec 14, 2024

They say the hydrotank can hold up to 300 Bar, but then in practice you can't fill it that high cause you need to leave "room" for the water ballast. So is that, 250 Bar? 200? I don't think you're get much more air in the biggest tank than an AL 80

Your intuition is spot on. Allowing just enough room to take on 2 lbs of water for ballast, I calculate the 10L cylinder would be at 255 bar to start, including adiabatic heating and compressibility. This is about 8% more gas than an AL80 at rated pressure. (FWIW, an HP100 holds about 29% more than the AL80.)

• inquis

I have a reasonably low RMV, the fills in Bonaire gave me my regular dives of 70+ min, with gas to spare. I do all my my dives in SE Florida on AL80s. The Avelo gas capacity works for me, sounds like it would not for you.

3) Computers with Avelo Mode give you % gas remaining. With a traditional computer, you use % of boosted pressure, they supply a wrist slate if you want to use it.

Once I was certified and had the 2 additional guided dives, I was allowed to rent the Avelo System on Bonaire with Dive Friends. A day's rental includes Jetpack, 2 batteries, 3 Hydrotanks, weights, and 300 bar regulator/octopus. For me, this was a full day of diving at a cost of $110.

 

[scubadada]

@inquis Do you know why they don't offer anything larger? It seemed weird to me that they have a small option, and a normal sized option, but no large option. Is there some sort of design limitation, or did they just think 10L was big enough? It feels like, given that their 10L will often be filled to lower capacity than an AL 80, they would make that the "small" option and offer a "regular" 12L tank, which, IIRC, is the same size as an AL 80 in any case.

Ask Avelo

Avelo - Contact

diveavelo.com

It might have to do with the height of the Hydrotank. I can't find the exact height but believe it is near the height of a HP120. I'm only 5'10", I found it awkward donning at the bench but OK in the water. My 5'4" wife found the height quite annoying. To have a larger cylinder, they might have to go to a fatty design like a HP117 or 133.

Above, you mentioned taking a stage bottle with you for more gas. That is certainly possible as the Jetpack is a back plate and harness. I would not consider doing that, but I have thought about taking my 19 cf pony for solo diving. I will probably give that a try someday.

 

[lowwall]

@inquis Do you know why they don't offer anything larger? It seemed weird to me that they have a small option, and a normal sized option, but no large option. Is there some sort of design limitation, or did they just think 10L was big enough?

The answer is the size of the system. The tank is long and there's some hardware attached to the bottom (protected by a boot). It's already as long as an HP120.

I don't know what the diameter is, but it looks to be the same as current wide tanks like an HP117. If that's the case, they can't really go wider either without running into issues fitting the thing into tank racks and holders on boats.