Is certification necessary for shallow water diving?

[thbcthomas]

That's like saying why pay a driving instructor to tell you to turn the wheel and step on the gas.

I didn’t pay a driving instructor to tell me to turn the wheel and step on the gas, my dad taught me.

 

[L13]

Training =/= certification.

The purpose of training is to learn how to do a thing. The purpose of certification is to tell others you have learned how to do a thing.

It is unsafe to dive without adequate training, independent of certification.

It is difficult to do significant diving without certification since many others will not provide the needed services or equipment without it.

With a good instructor, and $, you can get both. With a bad instructor you don't get training, the more important of the two. Without $ you don't get the certification, useful but not necessary to stay alive.

 

[CuzzA]

@CuzzA I did spend the money for my son to get certified and I will not take him on a dive charter because I do not feel like he was properly trained and neither does he. But we paid the money and got the certification. I wish I would have contacted the @The Chairman to get my son certified, but being in Texas, it was not feasible.

I would tell your friends they need to get certified and then you'll be happy to lend them your spare equipment. They can check the reviews of the dive shop. Once certified they will most likely have shown basic knowledge and proficiency to conduct a buddy dive. Same goes for your child if you feel the training was inadequate. But if he still has access to his training materials you could certainly have him review everything and then go do some dives with him to practice skills.

Certification doesn't instantly make them a good buddy for you, but it's a start and should they do something that gets themselves killed, the liability would no longer be on you for taking non-certified divers.

It's pretty straightforward, IMO.

 

[Wants2divemore]

Another reason for certification is that is makes getting additional experience possible. While your friend was able to dive in a private pond, it is unlikely that they would be able to dive anywhere else without an open water certification.

 

[rx7diver]

Certification is not needed. Knowledge and skills that the process is supposed to teach are. ...

+1

rx7diver

 

[Jim Lapenta]

A certification gives you enough information not to kill yourself. Open water is not meant to make the student an expert. Perhaps at one time it was but not today. The diver is expected to continue their own education with experience and additional certifications. An open water certification is a "license to learn".

With a crappy, unethical instructor yes. But that goes against the RSTC and WRSTC guidelines and the guidelines of some agencies. They say an open-water diver should be able to plan, execute, and safely return from a dive with a buddy of equal training and no professional present. Immediately following the class, they should not have to use a DM or other dive pro to continue diving.
They should have a solid enough foundation that, over time, they can expand the places, conditions, and depths to which they can dive.
I never handed a student an open water card if I felt they could not do this. Some often chose to dive with DMs or guides when they went on vacation to see things they did not want to search for. There is nothing at all wrong with that.
But they also were fully capable of telling that DM or guide to sod off if they tried to take them somewhere they knew they were not ready for. And find their way back to the boat or shore on their own. I would not have given them a card if I thought they couldn't.
The "license to learn" phrase is a copout by instructors and shops that don't want to take the time or effort to give the students what they are paying for and then lie about how they need to take more classes.
It's just another reason I retired. Besides getting older, I'm sick of the unabashed greed and lack of morals and ethics in training.

 

[scubadada]

Hi @thbcthomas

I was going to post earlier but procrastinated. @CuzzA beat me to it. Your son is certified, go do some dives in a forgiving environment so that he can improve his skills.

 

[thbcthomas]

@scubadada Why is it ok to take my son diving in forgiving environments, but not a friend that is a United States Marine? Just because my son has his certification?

Again, i am not saying people should not get certified. I am also not loading up people to take them diving. I am just curious.

 

[boulderjohn]

Perhaps I did not read the thread carefully enough. It seems to me the opening post says that the son's instructor sucked, so therefore all instructors everywhere suck.

I would say that in this day and age, if you see an instructor teaching a class on their knees, then, yes, you should seek another instructor. But there are many instructors who do not teach students on their knees and who can provide excellent training for the same price as sucky training. If you call around and ask, just start by asking if the students will be taught on their knees. If the answer is yes, politely say goodbye and make your next call.

 

[Miyaru]

@thbcthomas
Just skip the training. Diving without an ISO 24801-2 certification is not against the law.

And I agree, paying $1000 for certification (and course materials, gear rental, instruction) is wasted money. Spending that money on a wheelchair in case you end up like @BoltSnap has illustrated, is a much better (and tangible) investment.

The really good thing about diving without that ISO certification, is that you won't be afraid of what you don't know. Diving without worries! No knowledge of pressure change, or why the shallow depths are actually the most dangerous parts of a dive.

And if the brown stuff hits the fan..... blame Mother Nature, hold her liable and sue her in court for restoring the balance.
Maybe sue Darwin as well, in case he handed out an award.