DAN Responds

[dylanfromwinnipeg]

Same thing happened to me in November, got bent, was taken to an urgent care in Eleuthera Bahamas, after being seen by the onsite doctor, he called Dan and was transferred to Dan Assist, the Doctor on call told them we need a flight for this member, we need to get him to a chamber, he told them that he had examined me and that I had been hit with DCS, after that we were told that a flight was coming, I was taken from urgent care to the airport in Eleuthera, then after arriving we were told at the airport that night flights cant arrive because this landing strip has no lights! We then had to call DAN and they told us that a flight could not be secured until the next morning, I was then told that a flight from Nassau was coming to take me to doctors hospital, we had to go to a different landing strip for small aircraft, they told me we need 8,000 for the flight, I was not able to cough up this amount so the dive operator had to cover the cost, after getting to Nassau and then to doctors hospital I was taken to the ER, upon my arrival I was told by registration we need 8,000 dollars before we can help you! I had to call my Bank at 1:30 in the morning and move funds around to pay them. I called DAN assist and the Hospital would not even talk to them, the next morning I was taken to a chamber at 0800 hrs, had to spend another day in the hospital and cough up another 1,900.00 bucks! I did get my money back but something needs to be done differently for situations like this, I have fully recovered and I'm doing fine, but I probably will never travel out of the US again on a dive excursion!

Doctors Hospital sounds like a pretty sketchy place. There's a hospital in Playa Del Carmen that does the same thing. The all-inclusives send their sick guests there (presumably because they get kickbacks). When you show up the hospital demands large cash payments before they'll even talk to you, and don't accept any insurance (locals would never go there, just a bunch of gringos). If you look at the google reviews for Doctors Hospital it looks like they operate in a similar way.

 

[rmorgan]

I'm shocked that a company would admit guilt this openly, hope they don't get sued out of existence as on average they are very important and beneficial to the diving industry.

I certainly take your point, but I don't see an admission of "guilt," just a straightforward statement of facts, confirmation that changes have already been made, and a commitment to review and improve. Effective root cause analysis and forthright corrective action, as seems to be what is happening here (and in public view, and real time), is all too rare.

Coincidentally, the new issue of Undercurrent includes a story of DAN responding quickly and, it seems to me, appropriately when a diver on a boat in the Revillagigedos had a stroke. The writer closed her report this way: "While we continued diving after his evacuation and had an otherwise wonderful trip, I will never forget the service and sincere concern from the Solmar V crew, DAN, the Mexican Navy, and everyone involved. A successful evacuation from the waters of the Revillagigedo Islands to Cabo San Lucas and a diver able to return home were remarkable, life-affirming achievements." The same issue reports that DAN has decided to continue insuring diver 80 or more years old, at its own expense, because DAN's insurer refuses that coverage.

Anyway, I paid our DAN renewal this afternoon, with no angst over the current maelstrom. I am not a fan of insurance in general, but I feel like DAN, in addition to being the industry standard and essentially (if not specifically) required by liveaboard and resort operators, gets a lot of things right and contributes a lot to the dive world. I expect (more) good things to result from DAN's turn under the microscope, but do think that the prepayment policies of foreign hospitals is not a compelling example of incompetence on DAN's part.

 

[Wookie]

I certainly take your point, but I don't see an admission of "guilt," just a straightforward statement of facts, confirmation that changes have already been made, and a commitment to review and improve. Effective root cause analysis and forthright corrective action, as seems to be what is happening here (and in public view, and real time), is all too rare.

Coincidentally, the new issue of Undercurrent includes a story of DAN responding quickly and, it seems to me, appropriately when a diver on a boat in the Revillagigedos had a stroke. The writer closed her report this way: "While we continued diving after his evacuation and had an otherwise wonderful trip, I will never forget the service and sincere concern from the Solmar V crew, DAN, the Mexican Navy, and everyone involved. A successful evacuation from the waters of the Revillagigedo Islands to Cabo San Lucas and a diver able to return home were remarkable, life-affirming achievements." The same issue reports that DAN has decided to continue insuring diver 80 or more years old, at its own expense, because DAN's insurer refuses that coverage.

Anyway, I paid our DAN renewal this afternoon, with no angst over the current maelstrom. I am not a fan of insurance in general, but I feel like DAN, in addition to being the industry standard and essentially (if not specifically) required by liveaboard and resort operators, gets a lot of things right and contributes a lot to the dive world. I expect (more) good things to result from DAN's turn under the microscope, but do think that the prepayment policies of foreign hospitals is not a compelling example of incompetence on DAN's part.

And, they aren't a Company.

DAN is an organization.

 

[noserider]

I'm shocked that a company would admit guilt this openly, hope they don't get sued out of existence as on average they are very important and beneficial to the diving industry.

It is a real shame that as a society, our thoughts are they might be sued when fessing up to gaps in their processes and implementing changes to improve the service. This is a learning opportunity for DAN and something they have learnt from.

Just a shame that it has affected at least 2 separate people before the change was implemented.

To put travel insurance in a wider context, I got injured on a work trip to Africa a few years ago despite having corporate insurance and speaking to insurance company I still had to use my credit card for all medical bills, ambulance, X-rays, scans, putting a leg in plaster and even pay for the crutches i needed. I also had a similar instance in Tokyo where I needed to go to emergency care on New years eve, almost every clinic / hospital the insurance company used were closed for the new year, in the end the hotel found a hospital open that spoke English but the insurance company did not have a relationship with them so my Amex card came to the rescue. In both cases all fees were refunded by insurance but without cards with decent limist I would not have treated.

Unfortunately this is the way medical facilities work and I am sure as a Brit if i turned up at a hospital in the US I would expect that a charge would be taken against my credit card even though I travel with insurance this might not be resolved until I got home

 

[cerich]

And, they aren't a Company.

DAN is an organization.

multiple ones, and they are incorporated under various structures.

 

[Scared Silly]

When traveling outside of one's home country and engaging in actives that when things go right are fun but when things go wrong have a high consequence one really needs to lower their expectations.

Travel insurance whether it be Dan or Global Assist or another, they are trying to provide a service. They are not fool proof. There are over 200 countries in the world, each with their own way of doing things. What might have been working a year ago is no longer working today.

Setting off on an adventure thinking one has travel/rescue insurance so no worries if Davy Jones comes a calling is naive. Folks need to do their home work and temper that with their expectation.

 

[scubaozy]

Doctors Hospital sounds like a pretty sketchy place. There's a hospital in Playa Del Carmen that does the same thing. The all-inclusives send their sick guests there (presumably because they get kickbacks). When you show up the hospital demands large cash payments before they'll even talk to you, and don't accept any insurance (locals would never go there, just a bunch of gringos). If you look at the google reviews for Doctors Hospital it looks like they operate in a similar way.

Yes but this is just business. How easy is for a hospital to collect their money globally afterhand from insurance companies? If I travelled to USA and was sick checking into a hospital and they have never heard of my insurance before, wouldn't they want to charge at least a deposit to my credit card?
I am sure that if a certain healtcare provider does not work with a certain insurance because they were not able to collect their money before. Like wise, if DAN detected certain providers overcharge the services, might not want to work with them anymore. Patient is victim in both cases.
Now the question is, the travel assist systems implemented by insurance companies, are they trully assistance or are they a cost saving measure at the same time? Clearly getting service a la carte is more expensive..

 

[LFMarm]

Very good and timely response from DAN. Well done! We should all appreciate them taking ownership and looking for ways to improve their service. Hopefully all of us will benefit from this incident.

 

[crofrog]

Very good and timely response from DAN. Well done! We should all appreciate them taking ownership and looking for ways to improve their service. Hopefully all of us will benefit from this incident.

I see so many comments like this so I’m not singling you out with this reply.

So let me get this straight they didn’t do what they were suppose to do, got blasted for it publicly and are now making changes. I agree the changes sound like they should help. Assuming they’re followed, that being said if the SOPs they already had in place where followed then this would have happened in the first place.

I didn’t really see any changes in their governance, internal audit, or quality programs.

So let’s all imagine this was the company you worked for and they said they were going to make those changes. I’m guessing not many of you would have a high degree of confidence in them solving the underlying issues that led to the situation in the first place.

 

[L13]

I see so many comments like this so I’m not singling you out with this reply.

So let me get this straight they didn’t do what they were suppose to do, got blasted for it publicly and are now making changes. I agree the changes sound like they should help. Assuming they’re followed, that being said if the SOPs they already had in place where followed then this would have happened in the first place.

I didn’t really see any changes in their governance, internal audit, or quality programs.

So let’s all imagine this was the company you worked for and they said they were going to make those changes. I’m guessing not many of you would have a high degree of confidence in them solving the underlying issues that led to the situation in the first place.

This is what Just Culture is about. If you acknowledge your errors and take action to correct them, your are respected for doing so. Even if you still face consequences because of your errors.

I wish Just Culture could be applied to all the actors in this incident.