Zeagle Ranger Pull Dump Question

[Aaron1121]

I have a quick question-

Do all of the Zeagle Ranger owners out there regularly use the shoulder pull dump valve? If so, how well does it work?

I just bought a new Ranger LTD last week. I took it for a boat dive out of San Diego this weekend, and I love the fit and the way it performed. Everything was absolutely great, except for the pull dump. Even when I pull on the hose pretty hard, it would only slightly open the shoulder valve. Since it didn't let the ait out fast enough, I ended up using the inflator hose above the head method most of the time when ascending to the safety stop. Not a big deal, just a little inconvenient.

The reason why I'm asking is, is that I had my LDS install an Atomic SS1 combo inflator. (No one had the Octo-Z in my area) I wondering if this is a normal issue for this BC, or if the shop did not make the dump cable tight enough when installing the SS1. I took it back to them, and they check and said that it was installed properly........but I don't know if I believe them.

Thanks in advance for the response!

 

[djanni]

I have the Stiletto and an SS1. The SS1 would not affect the shoulder pull dump's operation. The only way it could be installed improperly would be is they failed to connect the wire that activates the pull dump.

It's probably just me but I hardly ever think to use the shoulder pull dump. I always raise the SS1 over my head to vent air.

I would say that if you can pull the hose and vent air it is proberly installed. If you're not venting enough air it may be due to your orientation in the water.

 

[crpntr133]

Is the hose long enough to allow for the shoulder dump to work properly?? Other than that, it should either work or not at all.

 

[Aaron1121]

Yeah,

The hose is long enough. If you pull it, nothing happens. If you pull it hard, the valve opens slightly. The bottom dumps perform much better.

 

[bperrybap]

It is a design/materials issue. I have the brigade (same BC as Ranger)
with an SS1 which is the same configuration as yours.
My shoulder dump never worked very well.
(Until I fixed it)

The problem is the corrugated hose itself. The newer hose
isn't really what I would call a corrugated hose at all.
It is a rubber hose with concentric rings molded only into its
exterior. They are not very elastic and require a lot of force to stretch
enough to operate the dump valve.
The older hoses were a real corrugated hose with a large spiral
grove that acted as a spring and were very stretchy and
easy to operate.
To make matters worse, when the hose bends over your
shoulder the problem is amplified. This is because the
cable will follow the inner radius of the curve. This means
that from a pulling perspective, the hose has shrunk and
the cable is longer which requires even more force to make
up the difference.

To see the issue, remove your SS1 or inflator assembly and look at
where the cable is in relationship to the end of the hose when
the hose is straight.
Now bend the hose like it would be over your shoulder
and you'll see the cable will now protode up to 1" further
than it did before. This means you will have to pull harder &
further when the hose is bent over your shoulder vs straight
out from your body or up twards the top of your head.

Also, as the hose lays on your shoulder, the only part
that can stretch is the part of the hose that is from the top
of your shoulder to the end where the SS1/Inflator is.
So if your dump valve tends to ride low on your back, then
the problem is even worse.

The newer hose seems alot more robust and seems less
much less likely to rip or be pulled off the connectors, but as far
as I am concerned simply doesn't work for dumping.
Ok, mine did work if I removed the hose from the velcro holder
and pull it up twards my head. Not exactly the way I thought
it should work.

The old hose would easily stretch a few inches with very little
force. The new hose takes a lot more force to get any amount
of stretch and a tremendous amount of force to get more than
about 1/2" to 3/4".

I replaced mine with a different hose (~$20 from ScubaToys)
and now I have no more issues dumping from the shoulder dump.
Small amount of force in any position and it always works now.
(I also had to replace the cable as the replacement hose
was shorter than the original hose that came with the Brigade)

I posted about this before but I'll cut/paste it here again for easy reference.
I even sent this information with more details
off to Zeagle but they didn't seem to be too concerned over it.

--- bill

----------------------------------------------------

The shoulder dump using the corrugated hose
on mine didn't work very well.
It took me quite a while to figure this out.
The problem is the corrugated hose. Zeagle has updated the
hose on all their BCs to use a more rugged hose. This new
hose isn't as stretchy and uses alot more force to get it to
stretch. Also depending on where the BC lands on your back,
and the direction that you pull on the hose,
the amount of stretch needed to dump air changes.
So for me I could never get the dump to work.
I finally figured out if I pulled the hose down towards my
knees with the hose near my body it would not work, but
if I pulled the hose up twars my head with the hose along
my face it would dump just fine.
The difference being whether the hose was curved over
my shoulder or straight.

My solution was to change out the corrogated hose for the
older hose which is similar to the hose the OMS wings are now
using. It is much more flexible and stretchy.
Now I can dump using my corrogated hose just fine regardless
of the direction of pull on the hose.

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

[highdesert]

I dive a Zeagle Brigade, a Ranger with a different wing. I have an Octo-Z installed. The pull dump works great; I get a complete and rapid discharge of air. I'm thinking the pull cable was either incorrectly re-installed when you had the SS1 put on, or the cable is the incorrect length when used with the SS1. The hose itself, whether you want to call it corrugated or concentric ringed, is very elastic and stretchy. The issue you have is, I believe, not typical. I would also suggest you re-post this in the Zeagle forum, so Scott Zeagle can respond.

 

[DiveTub]

Its really a petty easy fix.
Don't pull the hose, pull the inflator.

Pulling the hose itself does nothing as all you are doing is stretching the hose.
Pulling the inflator (that the cable is connectd too) will opens the valve on the shoulder fully.

Cheers
Chris

 

[crpntr133]

Just thought of something. I have heard of the pin that holds the cable to the inflator coming out on one side. This give you just a bit of a dump but not fully. This is an easy fix since it just requires removing the two zip ties at the end and pulling back the corrugated hose.

 

[Web Monkey]

Its really a petty easy fix.
Don't pull the hose, pull the inflator.

Pulling the hose itself does nothing as all you are doing is stretching the hose.

That's not really true. If you pull hard enough, you can also tear the hose.

Terry

 

[bperrybap]

I dive a Zeagle Brigade, a Ranger with a different wing. I have an Octo-Z installed. The pull dump works great; I get a complete and rapid discharge of air. I'm thinking the pull cable was either incorrectly re-installed when you had the SS1 put on, or the cable is the incorrect length when used with the SS1. The hose itself, whether you want to call it corrugated or concentric ringed, is very elastic and stretchy. The issue you have is, I believe, not typical. I would also suggest you re-post this in the Zeagle forum, so Scott Zeagle can respond.

In my case, using a Brigade,
like I said it depends on several factors. My guess is that if your
hose is "very elastic and stretchy" then you have the older/original hose.
There is a HUGE difference between the 2 hoses.
One is really stretchy and the other is not.

The dump works great all the time in all positions
with the older hose.
Just my opinion but the newer hose
while more rugged, is just not elastic enough to work properly
when you pull on the inflator down twards your legs while
keeping it close to your body and the dump
valve is a bit down on your shoulder/back.
Well ok, it will sometimes work but man o man you really have
to yank VERY VERY hard to get it dump.
Hard enough that I be afraid that something will come lose or break over time.

However, if you pull on it an angle such that the inflator is
away from your body it will work ok. Not as good/easy as when
using the older hose but good enough to get air to dump.
The further you hold the inflator from your body, the better
it works.

(For all those interested, when I say "pull on it" I mean
the actual Inflator/octo+ not the hose).

Shortening the length of the cable won't work. (tried that).
If you shorten it any, which helps when the hose is
bent over your shoulder,
then it will sometimes dump by itself when the hose is not
bent over your shoulder because the hose is stiff and won't compress. It is more of an issue of the changing relative
lengths of the hose vs cable when bent over your shoulder
and the rigidness of the new hose.
(See the hose bending test I refered to earlier).

The issue will show up more the further the valve rests below
the top of your shoulder and tighter the bend radius of the
hose over your shoulder. I.e if you have on a thicker wetsuit
or a dry suit the bend radius will be larger and the issue
will be lessened.

After I figured out the problem, for a while I operated
the dump valve buy pulling on the hose with the inflator
away from my body. It worked but I didn't like having to work
it that way.
After trying to unsuccessfully explain it to Zeagle. I went
to ScubaToys and bought a new corrugated hose and solved
the issue once and for all.

This may not be an issue for everyone. It was for me.
I think it depends on several factors that when combined
make the new hose not work.

For anybody having this issue, I bet you have the newer
stiffer hose and if you pull on your inflator/octo+ when
it is away from your body I bet the dump valve will work just fine.

My preference would be to remove the corrugated hose
pull dump system completely (replaced with an elbow)
and add a right shoulder dump instead.
Problem solved and less wear and tear on the hose and
easier to dump when using an attached octo+.
A few other manufactures are doing this.

BTW, It's not just Zeagle that has switched to this style hose.
Many of the manufacturers have switched to this. I noticed
this about a year and half ago.

--- bill