Zeagle Escape - Positive buoyancy problem

[Grunt]

Tried out my new Zeagle Escape for the first time last weekend.

Now, I bought online, and the guy from my LDS has been giving me a really hard time about buying it - says it's rubbish, turns you on your face - 'get yourself killed with one of those, son'.

Anyway, I put some weight in the trim pockets and basically no problem. I sort of found myself tending to go onto my back - it needed a little work to keep upright, but not much - all in all not a problem, and well worth it for what was a much more comfortable dive position under the water.

The problem I did have was that I seemed to have a lot of trouble getting down - and needed a lot of weight - something like 28lbs, which for a 170lb fairly slim guy seems pretty heavy (I was diving 18lb with a one piece 7mm and a rental jacket BC). This was also my first time in my two-piece 6.5mm, and what with it being more neoprene and new I suppose that's to be expected. But it was really tough sinking - in the end I had to pull myself down a few feet on a line before I started sinking on my own. Could the new wetsuit really account for an extra 10lbs of weight?

I've read about air trapping, so I was trying to lean my left shoulder up a bit - but could this be anything to do with me using the BC wrong? Apart from that I like it - it's very comfortable on.

 

[BillAllbritten]

I use 14-16lbs/AL80/3mm/salt with mine. 0-2lbs fresh/AL80/swimsuit only. Are your getting all of the air out? Inflator head held high? Valve open until the inflator head is almost under water?

Don't depend on the release on one side of the bottom of the wing to do much, ditto the pull dump on the shoulder. They work fine but are slowwwww compared to the primary release.

Also, try lifting your left shoulder a bit when you discharge air. Last resort - put on old BC/borrowed BC, take Escape to pool, be sure cover is on inflator hose connector, hold it underwater or weight it, get all the air out, take the weight out, and see what happens. Sounds to me like you might still have air in the hose of the power inflator.

FWIW, with my Ranger, (more experience with it), I use 2lbs/fresh/bathing suit; 8-10lb fresh/3mm; 20-22lbs fresh 7/5mm+5mm/3mm hooded vest.

Other variable is your wetsuit - new = big bubbles in it. Take it to pool, add weight to a belt, hang suit through belt , see how much weight it takes to sink it v. the other wetsuit you had. Also, any chance of air in the wetsuit? Good, tight fit?

Good luck, Bill

 

[Grunt]

Air in wetsuit is something I hadn't thought of. Is there some clever technique to make sure you've got the air out? It feels quite tight, but I think there's some little wrinkles.

Looking at your comparisons, previously I was diving sort of in your weight ballpark - 8lb salt with a 2mm shortie, AL80 and a rental jacket BC - and with the new wetsuit and BC I seem to have waved you bye-bye.

I'll try to experiment with the BC next time I'm at the water - should it be neutrally buoyant with all the air out, anyway?

 

[miked]

Hi grunt,
I have a Zeagle Concept 2 (similar in some ways to the Escape), and you've got the right idea when you lift your left shoulder to help avoid air trapping. Also, BillAllbritten said it all about the other techniques for getting the air out, and other things to look into.
The tight feel to the wetsuit's fit is important-but even with a good fit, you will have some air in it when you enter the water.
Most of this air will bleed out during the dive, but you indicated the problem was during the initial descent.
Here's the technique I use to get the air out of the suit (it's only "clever" if it works for you).

On the surface, before you begin to submerge (in a "head up"vertical position) "flatten "your suit with your hands-I'm not too sure how to explain this-sort of like you were "ironing" the suit with the palms of your hands, the hands moving up your torso towards your neck. The heads up position,and the "ironing" helps get the air up to the neck seal.
As you start down continue the process ( with your right hand only-left hand will be on the inflate/deflate control) for the first 2-3 feet,finally pushing the air (not a huge quantity, I hope ) through the neck seal. You might have to "burp" the seal to complete the job.
This lets some water into the suit, but it does help get rid of the air.
Additionally, although (I think) the Escape is weight integrated,if you are wearing a weight belt, air can be "trapped" below the weight belt. If you wear one,also check there.
BTW, I do mostly boat dives,in warm water (3mmsuit), but I imagine you can do this for other situations.

Let us know how things turn out.
good luck,
MikeD


edited.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

You and I are built much the same. I'm 5'10 and 174. I have a 6.5mm two peice and with a hood I am wearing 24lbs. That puts me a little light on my safety stop. So you probably aren't far off. Keep in mind thats two layers of neoprene across the chest and back. Both of them are thick. My 6.5 is ten years old so its probably compressed some by now and a little easier to sink.

Keep working on it. You will get it.

Tom

 

[UFGatorDiver]

i also have an escape and have found that, with a shorty, need 12 lbs in the bc to be ok (weight 140) and with a thicker full suit, need about need about 16-18, which may or may not play a part for you. i love it though!

 

[Grunt]

Originally posted by Tom Vyles
You and I are built much the same. I'm 5'10 and 174. I have a 6.5mm two peice and with a hood I am wearing 24lbs. That puts me a little light on my safety stop. So you probably aren't far off. Keep in mind thats two layers of neoprene across the chest and back. Both of them are thick. My 6.5 is ten years old so its probably compressed some by now and a little easier to sink.

Keep working on it. You will get it.

Tom

Thanks for all the advice guys -

Tom - sounds to me that if you're at 24 with a 10 yr old suit and what sounds like the same set up as me, then perhaps I shouldn't be surprised if I'm needing 26 - 28.

miked - thanks for the air clearing tip - I'll try that - although I may warn my buddy first before they wonder what my hands are up to under the water.

UFGatorDiver - glad you love it - under the water it was very nice - on the surface with the weights in the back (it is an integrated system) I was not being turned onto my face like people said I would be, although you do need to make sure it's not too inflated or it will bob you about a little.

 

[miked]

Grunt,
Good idea to warn your buddy- it does look pretty strange!!!
Hope it helps,
Mike

 

[UFGatorDiver]

also, i pack more weight in the back of the bc, that helps too.

 

[jonnythan]

Just as a "me too," I dive a one year old 2-piece 6.5 mm suit with a new Tusa Imprex Pro. I'm 5'10 165 lbs.

I can get down with a little effort on 24 pounds, and I'm *just* right on the safety at 17 feet... if i get closer to 15, I get a little positive. Next dive I'll try 26 pounds... 28-30 doesn't really sound far off at all to me. For comparison, I wear 6-8 when in a 3 mm farmer john.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a 10 pound difference in the weight experiment.. that's only about a gallon of water. Thinking along the same lines, you could do some volume measurement.. immerse the one piece in a full bin of water. Immerse the two piece in the same bin immediately after and collect that water and measure it's volume. I'm sure it will be about a gallon.

..Anyway, yes. 28 pounds sounds ok

BTW, did the guy mention why exactly you'll "get yourself killed" with the Escape? Sounds like he's just so pissed about you buying online he's lying to you to make you scared. Better business through FUD!