"You're gonna Die"

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GreenDiverDown

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I was fortunate to witness something during my recent cave training in Tulum. I say fortunate because the mistake was an example of a huge error that cavers are never supposed to make... one that kills. We were lucky to see someone do it during our "class'... someone not part of our training. He was fortunate... because his "mistake' was caught by one of his teammates and corrected.... and he didn't die.

Basically, this was a mistake marking a T... and when not immediately corrected is a mistake that has a high probability of causing death.

It went something like this...

... my team had previously negotiated this T and had left markers for each team member on our exit side. As we returned back to this T another team approached it from a different side. We held and waited for them to mark this T. The lead diver in their group passed over the T and dropped his cookie... but on OUR exit side! Next to OUR markers! My instructor watched and later told us in his Mexico City accent... "I thought to myself... how beautifully done... I've never seen someone drop a cookie so quickly... with such flare and style. But... then I said to myself.... he's gonna DIE!"

Lucky for their team, their number two diver noticed this mistake and despite his flutter kicking up a huge cloud of silt, called back the lead diver and pointed out how they nearly died. He then reset his marker on THEIR exit side and proceeded to cross the T.

Make a mistake inside a cave... it doesn't ruin a dive... it very likely will end a life.

I find it interesting.. and a bit scary... that anyone would make this mistake. Will I do the same?
 
Stephen Ash:
It went something like this...


I find it interesting.. and a bit scary... that a smart, well trained caver would make this mistake. Will I do the same?

So, what was the reason for the first diver's cookie placement? Anyone debrief him? Did your team discuss this event post dive?

My guess is that he had a brain fart (IF he was "well trained"). Can happen, usually once...
 
daniel f aleman:
So, what was the reason for the first diver's cookie placement? Anyone debrief him? Did your team discuss this event post dive?

My guess is that he had a brain fart (IF he was "well trained"). Can happen, usually once...


I don't know. I suspect you are right... BF. I would worry that moving too fast or aggresively might increase the chance of a BF. It looked like he hurried across the T.

We were taught to STOP, ANALYZE, and AGREE before setting a marker. He sure didn't do that.

Yes... we discussed it a lot with our instructor but we did not see the other team again. (I think they were having a bad day... I believe that they screwed something else up on the previous dive that day. :shakehead )
 
Wow, you couldn't have scripted a better learning opportunity. Did your instructor set it up?

That is a very lucky team. Navigational errors in caves - and in Mexico in particular given the complexity - are pretty damn unforgiving.
 
Henryville:
Wow, you couldn't have scripted a better learning opportunity. Did your instructor set it up?

That is a very lucky team. Navigational errors in caves - and in Mexico in particular given the complexity - are pretty damn unforgiving.

No... definitely not scripted... not unless their lead diver was testing the rest of his team. It didn't look that way... but who knows.


Earlier that morning we saw one of their team exit the water and pack his gear out of the cenote. He waited for maybe 30 minutes or so and then returned to the water's edge. A little while later the rest of his team surfaced and I overheard him ask what had gone wrong. I didn't hear the answer but I can't think of a good reason why one person on a team would surface alone 45 minutes before the rest of his team. Most of us wouldn't leave our teammate(s) for any reason.
 
Stephen Ash:
I can't think of a good reason why one person on a team would surface alone 45 minutes before the rest of his team.


Your right....there is NO good reason....only bad ones.
What system were you in? and you sound like you might 'know' one of the other divers to indicate he was 'well trained'.
 
KazInAz:
Your right....there is NO good reason....only bad ones.
What system were you in? and you sound like you might 'know' one of the other divers to indicate he was 'well trained'.


MAYBE there was a reasonable explanation for the separation episode... I really don't know. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt... but I can't think of a way to explain it either.

I didn't know any of them. I DID see one of their team members all over the place that week and at one cenote we got to talking and he told me about his training. I don't know what training the others had.

I don't know which diver dropped the cookie on the death-side of the T. The caver that I met was the one that surfaced ahead of his team mates.
 
Stephen Ash:
MAYBE there was a reasonable explanation for the separation episode... I really don't know. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt... but I can't think of a way to explain it either.

The only reason for one team member coming to the surface first is a team separation.
You did the lost buddy drill in your training. How long should one search for a missing team member? I suppose the other 2 could have spent the 45 min looking for him I guess. Although if the team member that came out first had of left a note on the line saying he was separated and headed out of the cave, it would have prevented his team mates from spending so much time looking for him. Frankly I doubt they spent that time looking....if they had I think you would have heard a very animated discussion about it on the surface.

As for the misplaced cookie...we follow the same procedures that you learned. When making a change in navigation ie. placing a cookie, doing a T, or jump etc. All team members are 'consulted' and agree and mark each change in navigation. If one is not in agreement, discussion occurs. This forces all members to pay attention and agree.
 
Sorry if this is a really dumb question but I'm not trained in cave diving. Can you "BRIEFLY" describe what doing a 'T' and dropping a cookie are?
 

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