Your honest opinon

[marchand]

Recently I was looking at prices for high output HID canister lights (35W) and was amazed at how high the prices were. I then started to consider making one myself, as I am mechanically inclined. after doing some research the cost of materials came to be roughly $300 - $450 each depending on battery type and how many are made at a time.

I was wondering if people would be willing to buy these from me if I decided to make them. I would sell them for less than $1000 dollars. This price may seem high when compared to material cost but making these would be very labor intensive as I would have to make parts one at a time with a laith.
Also, these would have a lifetime warranty against defects.

Technical Specs

6061 aluminum for canister and light head
hydraulic hose for umbilical (I am considering a stainless steel braided hose)

light head would be roughly the same size a a d-cell maglite except shorter and I should be able to put just about any type of handle on it.

canister could be either 2.5"X4.5"x9" or 3.5"X4.5"X6" This can would be for a 18.4Ah Lithium Ion battery. I have no idea (yet) how much this battery costs.

another option for the canister would be 11" long 3.5" diameter for a 10Ah NhMH battery pack.

Wall thickness would be close to 1/4" for both cans

lamp would be 35W metal halide probably for car headlamps if they don't require specific burn positions.

beam would be focusable.

all seals would be double O-rings and gaskets or combinations of the two

everything possible would be made out of metal. yes it will be heavy, but darn near bulletproof.





I am open to any suggestions, comments, and criticism. Anything you have to say I want to hear it.

 

[RJP]

I was wondering if people would be willing to buy these from me if I decided to make them. I would sell them for less than $1000 dollars.

I am open to any suggestions, comments, and criticism. Anything you have to say I want to hear it.

What kind of track record do you have in terms of your can light products?

Are there any published reviews of your can lights?

What's your customer service history?

:14:

 

[marchand]

I have no history in lighting; but, in high school I was on the robotics team http://www.cornerstonerobotics.org and I was the lead designer and builder for two competitions one of which won first place in the nation, and I also played a major role in designing and building a ROV which won the high school international competition and outscored all of the college teams

ROV competition website http://marinetech.org/rov_competition/index.php

If you look around those sites you can see the type and quality of work I an capable of…

as for reviews there are none but I'm sure I can get someone to write one if I decide to start making these; however, I will only start making these if people are interested in buying them.

As for customer service I would like to establish a good customer relationship.

 

[PerroneFord]

I see a couple of problems.

1. With an Aluminum housing, how negative is this joker going to be?

2. With a reflector the size of a maglite, it's not going to through much of a beam

3. What kind of burn time are you thinking you'll see from a canister the size you describe and a 35w lamp?

4. What beam width in degrees would you be able to accomplish from the light head?


Those of us who pay $1000-$1800 or more for these HIDs have some VERY specific needs in their use. I can't speak for others, but the reliability of my light is something I rely on and may entrust my life to (I'm a cave diver). So although I know the materials cost is a lot less than the price of the light, there are other built in's like the ability to get it repaired quickly if required, the performance of the light, the years of reliable service that similar models have given other customers, etc.

There may be a good market out there for a good DIY style HID, but to be honest, the Salvo 10w HID at about $650 - $700 is a HELL of a light at a very fair price. It'll be hard to beat.

 

[marchand]

I see a couple of problems.

1. With an Aluminum housing, how negative is this joker going to be?

2. With a reflector the size of a maglite, it's not going to through much of a beam

3. What kind of burn time are you thinking you'll see from a canister the size you describe and a 35w lamp?

4. What beam width in degrees would you be able to accomplish from the light head?


Those of us who pay $1000-$1800 or more for these HIDs have some VERY specific needs in their use. I can't speak for others, but the reliability of my light is something I rely on and may entrust my life to (I'm a cave diver). So although I know the materials cost is a lot less than the price of the light, there are other built in's like the ability to get it repaired quickly if required, the performance of the light, the years of reliable service that similar models have given other customers, etc.

There may be a good market out there for a good DIY style HID, but to be honest, the Salvo 10w HID at about $650 - $700 is a HELL of a light at a very fair price. It'll be hard to beat.

1. with the aluminum housing I can get wall thickness below an 1/8 of an inch so weight isn't really an issue, although you do sacrifice some strength. I could also offer several different canister wall thicknesses depending on ones personal preference. Heck, I could offer custom thicknesses.

2. thanks for bringing up the issue about beam width. I guess I'll have to make the reflector bigger.

3. as for burn time, the ballast I'm planning on using draws a current of 3.2 A and the voltage will be 12 V so with the 18 Ah Litium Ion battery burn time should be around 5.5 - 6 Hrs

4. One way that I could get a nice beam width would be to use a convex lense, so theoretically I could get a beam width near 180º.

As for reliability, there isn't much to these lights. The only complicated parts are the ballast, igniter, and bulb and I'm not planning on making any of these myself. So the only reliability issue would be whether or not it floods. Lets say that I test every unit that I make to 500ft. would that ensure reliability in your mind? Granted, I would not take every unit on a 500ft dive, I would use a pressure can, but the test would still be accurate.

On the subject of repair, I would offer to over night ship your light back to me, and if it is a manufacturing defect I would replace the bad part at no cost to you. if you did something to it I would only charge the cost in materials to replace the part.

BTW I was planning on charging $650 - $800 for it depending on battery cost. The more batteries I buy at a time the cheaper.

Also, if the Lithium Ion battery ends up costing more than $200 I will put 2 10Ah NhMH batteries in it. Canister will end up being a little bigger though.


Just to let you know, my theory is to go as far out of my way possible to make the customer happy; however, if customers take advantage of this I might have to cut back on it.

 

[NorthWoodsDiver]

my idea would be to make say 2 or 3 of them and send them to impartial people who are not your close friends. Send them out for say 2 weeks and those select people put as many dives as they can on them than get the reviews, what needs to be changed or what qualities do you need to have. Than once you have worked on everything you can offer them for sale with all your gaurantees and some real life reviews to back things up. I really want an HID canister light with at least 20W but its way to expensive so if you think you can make one in the 20-35W realm with that burn time I am very interested and would gladly take a prototype one out for a test dive for you and send it back with a review and more than likely buy one after words but I wouldn't just order one from "some guy" online that has no brand to back him, without seeing the item and trying it first. but I tend to not trust people

 

[marchand]

NorthWoods, thanks for your input.

that is a very good suggestion, and I have thought about doing that; however, building three of them would cost me roughly $1000 that I don't have. It would be more reasonable for me to build one and rotate it between reviewers though. The only problem I see in having people I don't know review it is that I might not get it back. Once I get some more money in the bank I am going to build one, probably over Christmas or next summer, and bing it to a megadive so people can check it out.

 

[dannobee]

The Mag light head won't work with a 35watt HID. The ballast is generally stored inside the head, and the ballasts for the 35 watt bulbs are generally larger than a Mag Light head. If you choose to put the ballast inside the canister, the voltage running through the cord will at times be over 20KV. Not particularly a good idea if the light will be used in water, and especially in salt water. And the reflector isn't ideal for a light this bright.

The braided steel line idea for the power cord is probably not the best idea. A -6 hose will be pretty big and not as flexible as the regular canister light cords. The -4 and -3 hoses are generally teflon lined and *really* inflexible. Any of the braided steel options aren't particularly desirable because the individual wires tend to break and poke holes in things. Not good when we're talking drysuits and such.

Why not start out with a Trailtech 35w HID headlight, then manufacture a housing for the reflector and bulb/ballast? Add a standard canister style cord and fittings, then sell the assembly as a retrofit for the older halogen style lights.

 

[marchand]

The Mag light head won't work with a 35watt HID. The ballast is generally stored inside the head, and the ballasts for the 35 watt bulbs are generally larger than a Mag Light head. If you choose to put the ballast inside the canister, the voltage running through the cord will at times be over 20KV. Not particularly a good idea if the light will be used in water, and especially in salt water. And the reflector isn't ideal for a light this bright.

The braided steel line idea for the power cord is probably not the best idea. A -6 hose will be pretty big and not as flexible as the regular canister light cords. The -4 and -3 hoses are generally teflon lined and *really* inflexible. Any of the braided steel options aren't particularly desirable because the individual wires tend to break and poke holes in things. Not good when we're talking drysuits and such.

Why not start out with a Trailtech 35w HID headlight, then manufacture a housing for the reflector and bulb/ballast? Add a standard canister style cord and fittings, then sell the assembly as a retrofit for the older halogen style lights.

thanks for the reply

I would like to clear up a few assumptions that you made.

1. I never said that I was planning on using a maglite head. All that I said was that it would be roughly the same size. I will be making my own everything for this light, except bulb, ballast, and igniter.

2. I designed it so that the ballast is in the cannister. There should be no problems with the high voltage, unless someone decides to sever the umbilical. Even then it would be fairly harmless unless they decided to stick their finger into the arc. And even that would only burn them.

3. For reflectors I was planning on casting them out of brass and then silvering them. Does anyone see any problems with this idea?

4. the thing about the trail tech HID headlight is basically what I am doing except I am making my own reflector.

Although I do appreciate feedback on design I am more concerned about how willing people would be to buy it, because if people are I could make a business out of this.

 

[PerroneFord]

Please note in my post I did not say what would the unit *weigh* I said how negative was it going to be? These are not the same thing. I could care less how much it weighs on land, I am VERY interested in it's buoyancy characteristics.

Also, I think you entirely the wrong idea about beam width. Most HID can lights have a beam width between 6 and 13 degrees. Beyond this the light is too diffuse for signaling, and is totally ineffective in water with a lot of particulate matter. A beam width of 180 degrees would be completely useless. The reason you see such large reflectors on many of these lights is to focus the beam VERY tightly and prevent light spill onto the diver next to you.

I don't know about the idea of using brass for a reflector. While it would be polishable, I am also wondering about whether it will tarnish over time from simple condensation.

Oh, and by the way, umbilicals get severed. Plan for it. A careless swipe along a rusty bulkhead can get it done. Or at least cause a problem.


I would strongly suggest you get your hands on a HID canister light, and try to understand why certain decisions and compromises were made in the design. There has been a lot of evolution of the product over the years. I've used a few can lights of different generations, and am VERY pleased with my current model because of the features it offers over older designs.

Best of luck in this venture.