You can either complain or do something about the problem: The choice is YOURS!

[uncfnp]

I'm new to scuba so curious what constitutes this "decline." In just the last 6 months there has been a new LDS to open in my home town, that makes 4 that I know of within an hour of my home in the middle of no where NC. And in Florida, where I do a lot of my diving, there are two new dive boats in just the one marina.

 

[ChickenFried]

I wonder why we don't see large companies lining up to sponsor a video series such as this. If the impact to the non-diving public would be as advertised, one would think that a large company, such as ScubaPro for instance, would want to capture as much of that marketshare as possible.

 

[mrose]

Wow...I am amazed at the negative sentiment here towards anyone making money from the Scuba industry...If there is no money to be made, then equipment, classes, dive trip availability all goes down...That makes diving less accessible for the masses if the inputs are scarce and no one has a reason to spend money on Scuba marketing.

Hating on the Scuba industry for making money is akin to becoming enraged because auto makers, or any other product for that matter, generated some profit from the sale of the car.

 

[The Chairman]

Wow...I am amazed at the negative sentiment here towards anyone making money from the Scuba industry.

Welcome to the internet. Is it simple pettiness or jealousy? I have no idea, but I find it kind of funny. They want cheap Chinese knock-offs for a $100 AND they want small run machine shops to make them which would probably be well over a grand. For as long as I remember, the attitude that states that "If I don't dive, sell or teach it, it must be crap" is alive and well in the Scuba community.

 

[The Chairman]

Getting back on topic... we still aren't doing very well with this campaign. Please, please go to https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2062950464/around-the-world-under-the-sea and donate to this endeavor.

 

[DiveNav]

Getting back on topic... we still aren't doing very well with this campaign....

4 pages of posts ... how many backers so far?

...... Please, please go to https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2062950464/around-the-world-under-the-sea and donate to this endeavor.

Done

.....Serious question: point me to where the meaningful innovation has been. .....

Working on it!

Alberto (aka eDiver)

 

[redacted]

Wow...I am amazed at the negative sentiment here towards anyone making money from the Scuba industry...If there is no money to be made, then equipment, classes, dive trip availability all goes down...That makes diving less accessible for the masses if the inputs are scarce and no one has a reason to spend money on Scuba marketing.

Hating on the Scuba industry for making money is akin to becoming enraged because auto makers, or any other product for that matter, generated some profit from the sale of the car.

Welcome to the internet. Is it simple pettiness or jealousy? I have no idea, but I find it kind of funny. They want cheap Chinese knock-offs for a $100 AND they want small run machine shops to make them which would probably be well over a grand. For as long as I remember, the attitude that states that "If I don't dive, sell or teach it, it must be crap" is alive and well in the Scuba community.

I think you misunderstand (or are trying not to understand). It is not that they make $$$ that pisses me off. It is the way some of them go about doing it. I clearly remember the first incident that got me to looking at LDSs as worse than used car dealers. I was shopping for a Mk20/G500(S600). The local Scubapro dealer had it for a little over $600, but he offered to discount it to about $550. A little more shopping and I found it for $400 from a US online dealer and $350 from a European online dealer. Another trip to the LDS produced stories of counterfeit products, inability to get service, and non-delivery of good. LIES, LIES, LIES.

I bought 2 of them and learned how to service them on my own. Now I have come to realize that the focus of the "industry" is not on satisfying the need of divers as much as separating them from their $$$ as quickly as possible. The pricing scams for OW training (shops and agencies) can make airline ticket pricing look simple. Issues with the frequency, quality, and cost of gear service are absurd. And the biggest manufacturers are in full support of this fleecing.

Does anybody tell the new prospective diver that his first 10 dives will likely cost about $5k? Or that, by the time he hits 100 dives, it will have cost him over $100 per dive? I get quite a few inquiries from folks who think they want to start diving. I give them my honest opinion and advise. I'm sure that discourages some from ever getting started. But I'd bet the dropout rate for those who give it a shot is much lower than the norm. That should be the basis for a sustainable scuba "industry".

 

[flots am]

Welcome to the internet. Is it simple pettiness or jealousy? I have no idea, but I find it kind of funny. They want cheap Chinese knock-offs for a $100 AND they want small run machine shops to make them which would probably be well over a grand. For as long as I remember, the attitude that states that "If I don't dive, sell or teach it, it must be crap" is alive and well in the Scuba community.

I don't sell anything at all. And one of my relatives owned a mid-size machine shop for decades. I can assure you that simple, reliable regulators could be easily produced for way less than $1000.

Or Chinese knockoffs. I don't really care. The point is that the gear necessary for 90% of recreational divers does not need to be complex or difficult to manufacture and does not require R&D or "innovation", and that no "SCUBA Industry" is required in order to teach the minimal skills necessary to dive in conditions that make most recreational divers happy.

You want to rev up the SCUBA business somehow, and I'm saying that there's really no reason for it to exist at all, which is exactly why shops are dropping like flies. It has nothing to do with "the internet" or online sales or competition from this agency or that, it's an outdated non-sustainable business model.

It has a lot to do with equipment being overly expensive and overly complex just to differentiate it from competitors, training being dispensed over a long time, in small, expensive measures, and in general, making diving into a business, just for the sake of extracting money from divers.

However if you want to promote a kickstarter or whatever, feel free. I don't see it as anything more useful than collecting money to bring back dial-up internet, but everybody gets to choose what they want to support.

 

[Mike]

For well over 90% of divers, SCUBA just isn't the big, complicated, dangerous activity that the industry has made it out to be.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the business of equipment manufacturing for the scuba industry. Business is business and its a risk/reward model, and manufacturers and entrepreneurs deserve a generous profit for the risks they take. If you aren't willing to reward companies for their risks there is little reason for them to be in business, instead they could come work where you work and just draw a guaranteed pay check.

The scuba world you're referring to is similar to the way people had to live in the Soviet Union with 1 state run business that produced low quality items that were unreliable but cheap, with a choice of variety of black, ebony or charcoal. As soon as those people had access to the west and all the high-quality manufactured goods, they rejoiced and abandoned the soviet crap for high quality western goods. I don't see anybody going back crying that they can't find a cheap low quality soviet refrigerator, that broke down every 2 months.

I have regs that go for years without needing service. If I paid $100 for a reg and it lasted for 3 or 4 years, and the company folded, it's not such a huge problem.

Broken reg? Take it apart and fix it.

Can't get parts? Toss it in the recycling bin, spend another $100 and get a new one.

You seem to be fixated on a $100 regulator. A regulator is just a tiny fraction of the millions of dollars of scuba equipment. I suppose you'd be fine with a garage manufactured camera housing that works for awhile and then leaks and destroys your expensive camera, you'd just slap some silicone caulk in the plate separation or just throw it away and buy another $69.00 one and another camera? Or in your world, there would only be one camera to choose from and one housing and eventually no housings as everyone stopped making them since there was no money to be made anymore.

The cheap item that lasts for 3 or 4 years is the pipe dream not the reality. The reality is the cheap item lasts for 3 months. Or it breaks while you're in Truk or on a live-aboard and your diving is over for the week and you light all the money you spent getting there on fire and just shrug your shoulders and say "well at least it only cost fifty bucks and it lasted 3 years."

The idea of cheap and throw it away and buy a new one really never works when those items are paired with far flung locations that are expensive to get to. Of course the answer I suppose would be to just buy 4 of everything and pack 10 suit cases full of gear to go on a dive trip, unfortunately there wouldn't be 4 of the same thing to buy, and if you did spend a year accumulating 4 of them, none of them would be interchangeable, you'd be cursing as you tried to swap out a part that frustratingly every one of them is slightly a different size, not off by much, but just enough so it wouldn't work.

Or I'd take the reality we really live in today much better and having the ability to pick and choose from multiple sources, items at different price points, quality levels and features to manage participating in a sport that is equipment intensive.

---------- Post added June 17th, 2014 at 03:50 PM ----------

The point is that the gear necessary for 90% of recreational divers does not need to be complex or difficult to manufacture and does not require R&D or "innovation"

And how do you think some of this equipment that today is not complex or difficult to manufacture went from being very complex, large bulky, unreliable and difficult to manufacture to the simplicity and reliability you enjoy today?

You think that happened because people got it there working on it in their garages or that it evolved over time through there being enough of a market for businesses to perfect it all over time and years while making enough of a profit to spend money on research and development?

 

[The Chairman]

LIES, LIES, LIES.

You may say that your issue isn't them making money, but from your post, I would have to disagree. It exudes bitterness that probably arose from one or two LDSes. Yet, you paint the entire industry with the same incredibly broad brush. Ah well, never try to reason with an unreasonable person.

I don't sell anything at all.

Which means you hate just about everything.

And one of my relatives owned a mid-size machine shop for decades.

Whoa, my cousin is a brain surgeon, but that doesn't make me an expert on brain surgery... or does it? However, I worked in the Chemistry machine shop at UF for four years, and then at a private machine shop for a few years after and given the current rates at any machine shop, I am fairly certain that the price for one first stage and a couple of second stages would easily exceed a grand.

The point is that the gear necessary for 90% of recreational divers does not need to be complex or difficult to manufacture and does not require R&D or "innovation", and that no "SCUBA Industry" is required in order to teach the minimal skills necessary to dive in conditions that make most recreational divers happy.

Again, I would love to see where you get your fauxstistics from. In the end, I simply disagree with your premise as well as your conclusion.

However if you want to promote a kickstarter or whatever, feel free.

Well, I feel better now that I have your permission. Thanks for that.