krash
Guest
I hold a YMCA Open Water Diver "YSCUBA" card.
Do and will Dive shops continue to accept this certification ?
Do and will Dive shops continue to accept this certification ?
YMCA scuba about to be reborn! New name same high standards!
- Thread starter Jim Lapenta
- Start date
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This is indeed great news!
DMarelli
Registered
As we celebrate our 50th anniversary in 2009 the loyal Instructors, AIs and DMs of YSCUBA can be secure in the knowledge that YDI Scuba is an excellent opportunity for diving professionals to direct and grow a knowledge-based certification agency. We will remain non-profit, promote fun, safety, and service, and once again involve many of our professionals in our national leadership structure.
Tom Leaird and I welcome you to a new day in diving education and we will be responsive to your needs within the mission of YDI Scuba. We hope to see many of you at DEMA (booth 1423) and to work to support you and your programs for the next 50 years.
For those who were former YSCUBA leaders, we welcome you back with open arms.
Dan Marelli
YDI Scuba
Tom Leaird and I welcome you to a new day in diving education and we will be responsive to your needs within the mission of YDI Scuba. We hope to see many of you at DEMA (booth 1423) and to work to support you and your programs for the next 50 years.
For those who were former YSCUBA leaders, we welcome you back with open arms.
Dan Marelli
YDI Scuba
OP
I encourage those of you who are able to attend DEMA stop by and see them. Unfortunately I don't have enough vacation days or money left over to go there. If I could I'd go just to attend the meeting and help out at the booth. I can see all the new stuff on the net anyway and can't afford most of what I'd really like to have like a new scooter, a rebreather, or a RIB set up for diving! I'm keeping in touch with Tom through email and will continue to do so.
jimqh2o
Registered
Jim, Do you think YDI can work in a Dive shop. I am a YMCA instructor as well and sometimes we have been hurt a bit by the perception that YScuba is not always dive shop friendly.
I always wondered what the point of YSCUBA was. Not knocking it - just never understood it.
In our area (Maryland) I could not find any Y Instructors. All of the YMCA's in our area have scuba programs run by either PADI, SSI, PDIC or NAUI Instructors and often have long running affiliations with local dive shops.
I found this interesting since there is a large number of YMCA's here but no Y Instructors. Now the Y Instructors will no longer be affiliated with the YMCA but the program will be the same?
In my 12+ years of diving and teaching the world over - I have run across 1 YMCA C-card.
I'm writing all of this because I'm curious where all the YMCA Instructors are and where they''ve been teaching? Can anyone enlighten me? I'm honestly just curious.
Before I opened a shop I contacted YSCUBA (a couple of years ago) and inquired about becoming a Y Instructor since there were none in my area. They sent me a copy of their OW Course and I looked it over and thought - my God - this is what they taught back in the 1970's.
Will the new program still have the antiquities feel? Like something that belongs in the Smithsonian or will it be a more realistic and modern OW program?
I'm sure some Y Instructors think it is better because it uses these old-time skills etc... but much of that is overkill and really does little to promote a better diver.
Will the new Y be touted to Instructors as something they can do as an Independent such as NAUI and PADI or will it require affiliation like SSI and SDI?
Answers are appreciated... I'm curious as to the history of the Y (especially in our region - and why there isn't any,) program content, how it will work and any other info that can be shared.
In our area (Maryland) I could not find any Y Instructors. All of the YMCA's in our area have scuba programs run by either PADI, SSI, PDIC or NAUI Instructors and often have long running affiliations with local dive shops.
I found this interesting since there is a large number of YMCA's here but no Y Instructors. Now the Y Instructors will no longer be affiliated with the YMCA but the program will be the same?
In my 12+ years of diving and teaching the world over - I have run across 1 YMCA C-card.
I'm writing all of this because I'm curious where all the YMCA Instructors are and where they''ve been teaching? Can anyone enlighten me? I'm honestly just curious.
Before I opened a shop I contacted YSCUBA (a couple of years ago) and inquired about becoming a Y Instructor since there were none in my area. They sent me a copy of their OW Course and I looked it over and thought - my God - this is what they taught back in the 1970's.
Will the new program still have the antiquities feel? Like something that belongs in the Smithsonian or will it be a more realistic and modern OW program?
I'm sure some Y Instructors think it is better because it uses these old-time skills etc... but much of that is overkill and really does little to promote a better diver.
Will the new Y be touted to Instructors as something they can do as an Independent such as NAUI and PADI or will it require affiliation like SSI and SDI?
Answers are appreciated... I'm curious as to the history of the Y (especially in our region - and why there isn't any,) program content, how it will work and any other info that can be shared.
cgsmarine
New
Well I can tell you for those of us that have been diving for 12+ years, YMCA cert was a common cert, especially in the Northeast. It's my opinion that "back then" YMCA & NAUI were the premiere certification agencies. And I still think NAUI is one of the premier certification agencies, whereas PADI often teaches you abysmal skills, and is ready to take your money and give you flashy crap you do not need. I have been a "Jersey Diver" and mate for years, and can tell you we would often get some diver who shoves a logbook in our face, and flashes their PADI Open Water, Rescue Diver, etc. etc. in our face and informs us how they will be diving for the day. After we throw half of their gear in a pile of "you don't need this" and then give them a "tour" on the wreck we might be diving....often their eyes are opened! But I digress
I can remember in my open water it was rather militant at times, and you really needed to know how to swim, and pass several other strenuous tests.And back to the boat diving, before anyone gets critical....that is the NICE GUYS....I know of a particular boat in the Northeast (no longer in NJ) but you all know...(found the U869) where if you showed up with AL80's they would scoff at you and almost throw you off the boat. Which isn't playing nice either.....but anyway...
So to sum it up............I have not heard of YMCA in a looooong time, but kudos to them for their courses "back in the day"!
Will YDI have a central record keeping database? I have had several people who have lost paperwork on their world treks and they were unable to track down their certs because they were told that their records were locally kept. They may have been barking up a wrong tree, but....
This is very good news all the way around. Congratulations, ya'll.
This is very good news all the way around. Congratulations, ya'll.
OP
I cannot speak for all Y Instructors. But for myself the standards are why I became a Y instructor. I am going to affiliate with the new program because those standards are not going to change. We will still teach deco and doff and don. You will still have to be able to swim. If the OW standards were to be lessened I would not be willing to be a part of it.
As to the effect they have on new divers the reason you may not have seen it is because you've not seen any Y students when they come out of OW. Many of them look like the results after AOW with another agency and a few dives under their belt. We will also be fully supportive of independent instructors.
Many YMCA alumni left the organization when YUSA took over management of it. Before then it was active in many areas. When YUSA took over it instituted procedures and requirements to issue certs that were a real pain. The people in charge of it were unfortunately not divers. They essentially killed it. Walter can give a better account than I in that area but what happened was they expected us to be able to apply for permission to teach the course as classes were formed like they do with lifeguards. Now with lifeguards you have a pretty good idea that come spring you are gonna need a few of them, you can form a class over several weeks. No big deal. You get the names, set up the times, and get the sanction to teach, teach the classes over a few weeks and you're done til next year. You cannot do that with scuba since people come in year round. Another thing that helped hasten the demise of the program is the lack of support for it by the national and local Y's in favor of more lucrative aquatic programs like water aerobics and hydro therapy type exercise programs that more people could take advantage of. Many local Y's kept pushing the scuba pool times to smaller and more inconvenient blocks.
Still another factor is equipment. As it became more diverse and expensive the local Y's did not have the funds to keep up with replacing gear. Y's have suffered from the rise of so-called health clubs that offer more elite services and cater to the clientele that traditionally would have the money to invest in scuba training and equipment. Many Y's now serve groups who simply do not have the funds to purchase scuba gear. When you take all of this into consideration and couple it with standards that call for us to recommend gear to students with their best interests before that of a shop it makes it hard to compete with the larger more well known agencies. But in some areas we compete very well. There are those of us who have affiliations with one or more shops that have a steady client base. The one shop I'm affiliated with now has a good relationship with our local Y. Not as much pool time as we'd like but it still works.
The Y program is the oldest national training program in the US. LA County was and is a local program. YScuba was the impetus and model for all the other US agencies that came after. Initially they all followed the Y model. Then things started to change when profits took precendence over everything. When more and more people got an interest in scuba some saw the potential to make lots of money. It then started to become apparent that the more you put through the more money you made. If you started cutting things you could put even more thru faster. So some things started to go by the wayside. Now you have people who can breath under water. But they still need more training. What they initially received in OW they now have to take a class to learn how to jump off a boat. To properly weight themselves and have good trim they need still another class. The YMCA program and the new YDI program believe that there are certain basic skills that should be taught in open water. THere are advanced levels and specialized courses but they are and will be truly specialized, advanced, and worthwhile. My new UW NAv course will have a minimum of 6 dives and 4 hours of classroom. Whether it will be accepted for distribution in it's original form I don't know but I will have the freedom to teach it so that it meets and if necessary far exceeds the standards adopted.
Payment of tuition does not guarantee issuance of a card. It guarantees training. It is up to the student to satisfy the requirements and earn the card.
I am also not interested in producing what I call "underwater tourists". I want to teach those who truly want to dive. I want to know when my student gets his card he/she is prepared to dive in any conditions similiar to which he/she is trained in, with a buddy and not require a DM or guide. I want them to be able to judge when they need to go easy, ask for further training, or just plain be ok with saying no, I'm not doing that dive. I tell my students from the beginning- Scuba is not for everyone. If it is, then just because it is does not mean you can do any dive anywhere. This is an extreme sport. Is it fun, exciting, relaxing, and if you dive within your training and experience safe. Go outside of that and it may very well hurt, cripple, or kill you.
With that in mind I go with NAUI's philosophy that when I train a student I want them trained as if they were a loved one of mine. I would not feel comfortable putting my wife, son ,daughter, parent etc in a course that is done in a week or two. I want them to know how to swim, how to rescue someone from depth, that they will be ok with a situation demanding the ability to cope with a task such as the ditch and don or bailout. The Y program and the standards it follows gives me that peace of mind. If the standards were to be lowered just to make a profit or compete with an organization that I feel does not put the student's best interest at the forefront in every area, be it training, skills, and even their financial resources I would cease to hold membership in it.
YDI Scuba will be a non profit training agency based on solid learning principles and the needs of the student. It will seek to train divers to the highest standards possible. It will ask of it's instructors the same high standards it always has. It will also ask for input from it's instructors and adopt changes and suggestions where it will benefit the students and the agency. I'm new. But they are willing to give me the chance to rewrite what I believe to be a crucial skill for divers. I welcome any input from other Y instructors in this task. Do you think one of the other agencies would allow me to rewrite one of their specialties? Especially if it would mean toughening and lengthening the course. I doubt it. They'd be ok if I could find more shortcuts and get more people thru. It'd mean more money for them. Maybe for me. But not as much satisfaction or peace of mind.
Am I an idealist? Maybe. But maybe I'm just an instructor who is not doing this to turn out large numbers of divers. But one who is interested in turning out divers that I or anyone else would have no problem getting in the water with even if we were not getting paid to do it.
As to the effect they have on new divers the reason you may not have seen it is because you've not seen any Y students when they come out of OW. Many of them look like the results after AOW with another agency and a few dives under their belt. We will also be fully supportive of independent instructors.
Many YMCA alumni left the organization when YUSA took over management of it. Before then it was active in many areas. When YUSA took over it instituted procedures and requirements to issue certs that were a real pain. The people in charge of it were unfortunately not divers. They essentially killed it. Walter can give a better account than I in that area but what happened was they expected us to be able to apply for permission to teach the course as classes were formed like they do with lifeguards. Now with lifeguards you have a pretty good idea that come spring you are gonna need a few of them, you can form a class over several weeks. No big deal. You get the names, set up the times, and get the sanction to teach, teach the classes over a few weeks and you're done til next year. You cannot do that with scuba since people come in year round. Another thing that helped hasten the demise of the program is the lack of support for it by the national and local Y's in favor of more lucrative aquatic programs like water aerobics and hydro therapy type exercise programs that more people could take advantage of. Many local Y's kept pushing the scuba pool times to smaller and more inconvenient blocks.
Still another factor is equipment. As it became more diverse and expensive the local Y's did not have the funds to keep up with replacing gear. Y's have suffered from the rise of so-called health clubs that offer more elite services and cater to the clientele that traditionally would have the money to invest in scuba training and equipment. Many Y's now serve groups who simply do not have the funds to purchase scuba gear. When you take all of this into consideration and couple it with standards that call for us to recommend gear to students with their best interests before that of a shop it makes it hard to compete with the larger more well known agencies. But in some areas we compete very well. There are those of us who have affiliations with one or more shops that have a steady client base. The one shop I'm affiliated with now has a good relationship with our local Y. Not as much pool time as we'd like but it still works.
The Y program is the oldest national training program in the US. LA County was and is a local program. YScuba was the impetus and model for all the other US agencies that came after. Initially they all followed the Y model. Then things started to change when profits took precendence over everything. When more and more people got an interest in scuba some saw the potential to make lots of money. It then started to become apparent that the more you put through the more money you made. If you started cutting things you could put even more thru faster. So some things started to go by the wayside. Now you have people who can breath under water. But they still need more training. What they initially received in OW they now have to take a class to learn how to jump off a boat. To properly weight themselves and have good trim they need still another class. The YMCA program and the new YDI program believe that there are certain basic skills that should be taught in open water. THere are advanced levels and specialized courses but they are and will be truly specialized, advanced, and worthwhile. My new UW NAv course will have a minimum of 6 dives and 4 hours of classroom. Whether it will be accepted for distribution in it's original form I don't know but I will have the freedom to teach it so that it meets and if necessary far exceeds the standards adopted.
Payment of tuition does not guarantee issuance of a card. It guarantees training. It is up to the student to satisfy the requirements and earn the card.
I am also not interested in producing what I call "underwater tourists". I want to teach those who truly want to dive. I want to know when my student gets his card he/she is prepared to dive in any conditions similiar to which he/she is trained in, with a buddy and not require a DM or guide. I want them to be able to judge when they need to go easy, ask for further training, or just plain be ok with saying no, I'm not doing that dive. I tell my students from the beginning- Scuba is not for everyone. If it is, then just because it is does not mean you can do any dive anywhere. This is an extreme sport. Is it fun, exciting, relaxing, and if you dive within your training and experience safe. Go outside of that and it may very well hurt, cripple, or kill you.
With that in mind I go with NAUI's philosophy that when I train a student I want them trained as if they were a loved one of mine. I would not feel comfortable putting my wife, son ,daughter, parent etc in a course that is done in a week or two. I want them to know how to swim, how to rescue someone from depth, that they will be ok with a situation demanding the ability to cope with a task such as the ditch and don or bailout. The Y program and the standards it follows gives me that peace of mind. If the standards were to be lowered just to make a profit or compete with an organization that I feel does not put the student's best interest at the forefront in every area, be it training, skills, and even their financial resources I would cease to hold membership in it.
YDI Scuba will be a non profit training agency based on solid learning principles and the needs of the student. It will seek to train divers to the highest standards possible. It will ask of it's instructors the same high standards it always has. It will also ask for input from it's instructors and adopt changes and suggestions where it will benefit the students and the agency. I'm new. But they are willing to give me the chance to rewrite what I believe to be a crucial skill for divers. I welcome any input from other Y instructors in this task. Do you think one of the other agencies would allow me to rewrite one of their specialties? Especially if it would mean toughening and lengthening the course. I doubt it. They'd be ok if I could find more shortcuts and get more people thru. It'd mean more money for them. Maybe for me. But not as much satisfaction or peace of mind.
Am I an idealist? Maybe. But maybe I'm just an instructor who is not doing this to turn out large numbers of divers. But one who is interested in turning out divers that I or anyone else would have no problem getting in the water with even if we were not getting paid to do it.
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