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Xdeep stealth 2.0 vs. Razor 2

Discussion in 'Sidemount Diving' started by MScorpa, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. MScorpa

    MScorpa Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Westminster, Maryland
    59
    9
    0
    I am torn between purchasing an xDeep Stealth 2.0 or a Razor 2 sidemount system. Both seem to be around the same purchase price (expensive). The Stealth is about $100 cheaper. I've heard/read good and bad things about both systems but if it came down to your $700-$800, which would you buy?

    Currently I am diving with a Nomad, a big bulky heavy dinosaur that is designed as a modular system. I have no intentions of ever diving any other way than sidemount or progressing to rebreathers so I want to purchase a minimalistic, lightweight sidemount system that I can easily travel with. The pros and cons for both systems are listed below, please feel free to add (or subtract) from the list!!!

    xDeep Stealth 2.0 Pros

    • A little cheaper than the Razor.
    • Integrated weight system that is movable for trim and easy to change out weights.
    • Variations in webbing stiffness for comfort.
    • The wing has multiple chambers to keep it's shape.
    • The harness is quicker to adjust when switching from thin to thick suits.
    • The wing is double wrapped for protection.
    Cons

    • The wing attaches with multiple bungee straps, not to the harness (I don't know if I like the idea of trusting my main buoyancy source to bungees, plus it adds clutter around the chest).
    • The wing is non-redundant, no secondary bladder.
    • Softer webbing in the harness will wear out quicker than stiff webbing.
    • The weight system adds bulk to the system when traveling (when compared to the Razor).
    • It seems that there are many more points of failure on the harness (when compared to the Razor).

    Razor 2
    Pros

    • Extremely minimalistic in design (less failure points when compared to the Stealth).
    • Lightweight and easily packable for travel (even with the weight system).
    • The wing attaches securely to the harness.
    • Heavy duty webbing is durable and lasts.
    • The wing has a redundant bladder.
    Cons

    • It is more difficult to adjust the harness when changing thicknesses of suits.
    • The weights are more difficult to change on the weight system.
    • It is more expensive.
    • The wing does not have internal chambers therefore does not keep it's shape as well and is often difficult to exhaust.
    • The heavier webbing can damage your exposure suit.

    What have I missed? Which would you choose?
     
  2. CWSWine

    CWSWine Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Manhattan, Kansas
    210
    29
    0
    I own the XDeep and have seen the Razor in the water but have not dove it myself so I will leave the Razor comment for someone else.

    I felt the same way you do about the way the wing attaches but works and works well. You can adjust the wing higher or lower while in the water to provide lift that doesn't affect your trim.

    It is non-redundant but you can stack wings - I have not tried that and doesn't seem like good option to me.

    Softer webbing on the shoulder harness I would put in the pro side, that is one the features I really like but if you don't for a couple bucks you can replace the webbing with stiffer stuff. After you dive it I don't think you will want to.

    The weight system does add some bulk but it is designed to work and work well does. I really like the double closer on the spine weight pouches and the easy of setting up trim weights.

    Another Pro you didn't mention is that the XDeep comes with a optional detachable butt plate. I use the waist d-rings for AL80 but I always attach steel tanks to the door handles on the butt plate, I just feel they trim out better.

    A Pro for Razor is the pouch to carry stuff in, I ended up purchasing one for Razor folks which wasn't cheap but I do like it.

    Since I went though the same selection process you are I would selected the Xdeep over the Razor.
     
  3. MScorpa

    MScorpa Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Westminster, Maryland
    59
    9
    0
    Thanks for the Reply! I am very curious about the xDeep system. Do the spine weight pockets fold up for easy travel? I would love to be able to throw my entire sidemount setup into a backpack, carry-on or be able to squeeze it into any available space in my commercial box when traveling. That's one thing I can't stand about my Nomad, it barely fits into an extra-large dive bag with the fixed butt plate (not to mention significantly heavier than it needs to be). I don't want to have to pay for an overweight/extra bag on an airline just to do some fun dives on a trip (I don't typically go on dive specific trips, it's either for work or non-diving related travel). The Razor seems like you could practically roll that up like a rag and stuff it in your pocket but the xDeep has a lot of features that are very appealing, which would be worth the minor extra bulk if I could make it work. If I could hold the two side-by-side it would be an easy decision, however, I can't seem to find a LDS that carries either. So I am really counting on other people's experiences and write-ups.
     
  4. CWSWine

    CWSWine Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Manhattan, Kansas
    210
    29
    0
    I hate to steer you wrong. The spline pockets are NOT going to fold up or even fold in half. Again I have seen the Razor but have to not dove it but my impression is the wing would roll up into a smaller package and so would the harness so I guess it that out weights the features of the XDeep the Razor might be the one for you. There is diver on here that switched from the Razor to the XDeep and maybe he will chime in since he would know more about the difference between the two then I do.
     
  5. rongoodman

    rongoodman ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Albany, NY
    4,958
    1,614
    113
    The Stealth spine weight pocket is too stiff to fold up, but with the weights removed, it flattens right out. I don't think there's any difference in the bulk of the two wings. The harness has very stiff webbing for the waist belt, so it won't compress quite as much as a Razor. It will certainly fit into a carry-on or small backpack.
     
  6. MScorpa

    MScorpa Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Westminster, Maryland
    59
    9
    0
    That's too bad, I thought that might be the case from the photos. If they could redesign a bit to make it more compact it would be a hard system to beat for sure! I'm sure I could rig it up to be a little more portable but honestly I think I'm leaning towards the Razor since I'm pretty confident it will suit all of my needs right out of the box. I just wanted to get all the facts possible since I can't test drive them. Hopefully that Razor converted diver does chime in, it may give us some insight that hasn't occured to either of us.

    ---------- Post added June 26th, 2013 at 12:48 PM ----------

    That's a very good point too and good to know you think it will fit in a relatively tight spot! What are the actual dimensions of the spine pockets? I could split all the pieces up when traveling so the spine pockets may not matter much afterall. The web site says you can swap out any of the webbing stiff/medium/soft but suggest to leave the waist belt webbing rigid since it is the main attachment point for your bottles (not that you have to follow thier suggestion). I wonder if it would make a tremendous difference perfomance wise with softer webbing?
     
  7. rongoodman

    rongoodman ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Albany, NY
    4,958
    1,614
    113
    The spine pocket is about 17" long and 4" wide. Really, there's not a lot of bulk to the harness and wing compared to fins, wet suit, regulators, etc. Certainly less bulk and weight than a BP/W.
     
  8. MScorpa

    MScorpa Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Westminster, Maryland
    59
    9
    0
    I've read a number of posts here on SB regarding Razor divers that switched to Stealth, they all seem to be satisfied with thier decision. One thing seems clear, the Razor wing produces considerable drag went inflated. All those YouTube videos showing seemingly effortless manuevers with the Razor are pretty cool but the wing never seems inflated. 'rongoodman' I just came back from the Western MA/Lake George NY area, wish I'd posted this thread sooner we could've gone for a dip...
     
  9. CWSWine

    CWSWine Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Manhattan, Kansas
    210
    29
    0
    You can look at this way to, if you buy the Razor and don't like the wing you can purchase just the Stealth wing and not the complete setup since the stealth wing work with any Razor style harness. You would have more options also if you wanted to use the UTD wings or even the I think the Diamond wings also fit. It's nice to choices and find something that works for you not one size fits all. Those sidemount BC that are just modified/warm over rec backmount BC you won't have that option.
     
  10. MScorpa

    MScorpa Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Westminster, Maryland
    59
    9
    0
    I've been talking to someone who has done just that. He originally bought the Razor but wasn't fond of the wing so purchased a Stealth wing. He loves the Razor harness with the exception that it's a "pain in the ass" (his quote) to adjust the harness to fit differing exposure protection when going from warm to cold water. He didn't like the spine weights or all the "stuff" on the xDeep harness. His solution was to purchase two Razor harnesses, one setup for warm and another setup for cold. He also loves the Stealth wing but thinks it's a bit overkill for warm water diving with aluminum tanks so he will keep the Stealth on his cold water setup and intends to buy a small MSR style wing for his warm water setup (essentially two totally seperate sidemount systems for cold/warm water diving).

    After doing quite a bit more research I may just do it the reverse way and purchase the complete Stealth system. If I think the xDeep harness sucks then I will just buy a Razor harness or make my own Razor style harness. Since the exact Razor connections would not be necessary (no need to mount a Batwing) I can get/make similar buckles and webbing for much cheaper. Overall the Stealth should function for any kind of dive I want to perform (albeit maybe not perfectly for every situation encountered) and is ready to go out-of-the-box so at least when I ditch my Nomad the day the Stealth arrives I won't miss a beat. In the future I can refine my system further.
     

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