Wreck Preservation..

[starfish365]

Over stated?? Ya think?

hehehhe

Make no mistake guys, most of us know the timing, the poster, and the subject, did not come about by coincidence, but is a rather timely post in response to a local pi$$ing match.

Then of course this thread.......hehehhe, not worthy of a response, but since my good buddy Divemistress is here.....why not. We were/are accused of creating 6ft of headroom!!! hehehehheh. And of course, as far as we know, we don't have a clue who actually did the stealing, but from the accusations, it's assumed it must be us, as we are the ones that dive it the most.

Wrong, but who ya gonna tell that's listening anyway?

Nice political post, just the same. Goes to show you can get some good people on your side for all the wrong reasons.

I find some of the "political preservists" among us are typical politicians, they are long on rules and regulations and short on the practical side of the equation.

Guys like OTE and Adv Tech on this board, as well as D/Mistress and I (And if it wasn't us, it would be others hopefully) are the ones giving their time and sometimes money, towrds this stuff, while the rest see fit to post smear campaigns.

Nice call DiveMistress, keep up the good work. I hear the same thing about the china, although I have not seen them yet.

Steve

you know what Steve....ah never mind. Not sure this post was originally meant like you seem to think, its a ligit question as to who do you call when you see something happening. Its an effort to ask about what can be done to further protect the Tiller. Nothing mentioned you...no idea why everything has to be about you. Smear campaign ??...you're so funny!!!!

 

[sparky30]

Dear Steve,
Just to make things perfectly clear, the purpose of my initial post was to raise awareness, not to point fingers. I have not pointed fingers, nor do I intend to. I simply wanted to know what other people are doing to preserve their wrecks.
There were some great responses... The actual hertiage act makes for some interesting reading...
I realize that as of late you have been promoted to "god's gift to diving". I also realize that I will never be as magnificent as you in the water. I'm sorry I can't devote my life to diving like you. Maybe I'll just crawl back under my rock... (<--- In case you didn't get it.. its called sarcasm)
One last thing.. I have to disagree with you (and possibly the rest of the world) as far as moving artifacts is concerned. They should not be moving/touched/etc.. until a complete site survey is completed. In the case of the Tiller it doesn't make a differnce. The original survey was completed and the wreck is well documented, as are the Lilly and most other wrecks we dive on. On a new/unsurveyed wreck everything should be left as is, as the positions and locations and even the silt coverage could provide all kinds of useful clues. That's why the law requires that people who do the surveys get a license and meet certain minimum qualifications. At the moment I don't know anybody in the group of people I dive whith who is qualified...
As a personal opinion, even after a wreck is surveyed I would prefer that folks don't touch anything.. there is no need to.. Everything should have been cataloged and surveyed, so there is no need to move anything.. look at the item where they are.. respect the wreck. Some wrecks are gravesites..divers should leave things as they are..
In conclusion, I just want to reiterate that I didn't point fingers at anybody in particular, but I'll be damed if I just sit back and let you walk all over me...Did I take you last post personal.. Yes I did.. Now get stuffed.
BTW.. This me me me me.. its all about me... no exactly a team approach.. is it?

 

[DiveMistress2]

Hello Everyone & Anyone,

Are the site surveys published for us to see? I'd like to know exactly what was on the Tiller when they found it and what they removed and where it went.

Knowing that there wasn't much on it when we first started diving it I wonder if it was stripped during the survey of most artifacts and if they were catalogued and then stored somewhere? The other scenario is that perhaps the ship was stripped before it was sunk?

We still don't know a lot about the history of the wreck since it has yet to be identified.

I'd be interested in knowing why it sank in the first place. If anyone has a theory (not a S.A. comment of it had a whole in it and it sunk) then lets hear it.

If you also know how to access this information your help is greatly appreciated.

P.S. I know that Shark Marine discovered the wreck but did they also do the surveying? Who would have these records?

 

[starfish365]

Hello Everyone & Anyone,

Are the site surveys published for us to see? I'd like to know exactly what was on the Tiller when they found it and what they removed and where it went.

Knowing that there wasn't much on it when we first started diving it I wonder if it was stripped during the survey of most artifacts and if they were catalogued and then stored somewhere? The other scenario is that perhaps the ship was stripped before it was sunk?

We still don't know a lot about the history of the wreck since it has yet to be identified.

I'd be interested in knowing why it sank in the first place. If anyone has a theory (not a S.A. comment of it had a whole in it and it sunk) then lets hear it.

If you also know how to access this information your help is greatly appreciated.

P.S. I know that Shark Marine discovered the wreck but did they also do the surveying? Who would have these records?

Now THERE is an interesting, thoughtful question. Good one D/mistress....I was also curious as to why it hasn't ever really been identified. Also curious as to the history of the vessel before she sunk and what caused it to happen. My gues from the reading I've been doing it would be most likely a storm of some kind. Me being one who will openly admit not knowing a thing about shipwrecks and how they are identified - I'd be very interested in participating in a course NAS Level I and learning more. Chalk one up for me - I realize I need to be more educated and am willing to go where my curiosity takes me. When the time comes I will follow up more on it.

In the mean time - any logical thoughts on surveys?

 

[sparky30]

Hello Everyone & Anyone,

Are the site surveys published for us to see? I'd like to know exactly what was on the Tiller when they found it and what they removed and where it went.

Knowing that there wasn't much on it when we first started diving it I wonder if it was stripped during the survey of most artifacts and if they were catalogued and then stored somewhere? The other scenario is that perhaps the ship was stripped before it was sunk?

We still don't know a lot about the history of the wreck since it has yet to be identified.

I'd be interested in knowing why it sank in the first place. If anyone has a theory (not a S.A. comment of it had a whole in it and it sunk) then lets hear it.

If you also know how to access this information your help is greatly appreciated.

P.S. I know that Shark Marine discovered the wreck but did they also do the surveying? Who would have these records?

I think they folks at Shark Marine could answer that question.. I know they did a really nice poster of the entire wreck as well as a video.. I think its available at the St. Catharines Museum.. or perhaps from shark marine..
I would assume they have all the records (or would know who did). It must have taken them quite some time to collect all this info.. I saw the poster on-line somewhere, but I didn't bookmark the site.. If I find it again I'll let you know..

 

[DiveMistress2]

Hey there Starfish,

I got off my butt and made a phone call to Shark Marine. Apparently their grand poobah is away on a project until early next week.

They did confirm that they not only discovered the wreck but performed the site survey.

The archaeological permit did not include the removal of any items and so they were noted & photographed and left as they were.

I hope to hear back from them next week upon their return to determine if we are able to obtain a copy of the site survey.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Well Spark you ain't fooling anybody, much to your dismay. I can easily tell the time, day hour etc, as well as when the other stuff on the other board was posted, it's quite evident that you in fact did intend to draw a correlation between us and the Tiller.

As to all the stuff beiing documented, it wasn't, as I understand it, they didn't have the "OK" to do anything inside the wreck. Oddly enough, nothing was ever found outside that I know of.......hehehehe or maybe OTE has a far better explanation after his first dive on her............."OK, who took all the $hit?" I think was his words.

As in, it's fairly assured, that things were being "liberated" long before the public knew about the wreck.

Interesting thought really.

As far as the other stuff Spark, you've certainly been rude enough to those of us that have been trying to let you know that we were there if required. I have been actually sent several PM's and e-mail asking me why I bother with your poor attitude towards diving. I seem to be understanding them a little more now.

I agree with your initial thoughts, sell the boat and give up diving before your "I don't need anyone to help" attitude gets sombody hurt. I can't understand how someone could say (In your own words) that they don't need any diveshop, club, diver, boat captain to help them become a "better" diver/show them better ways etc, could ever have a fun time in the water, safely, anyway!!

Sorry pal, just agreeing with you. Surely you can't disagree now!

Honestly Spark, just because, by your own admission, you can't dive safely worth a darn, doesn't make those trying help some kind of dive snob. Sorry you feel that way.

Steve

 

[DiveMistress2]

Here is some more interesting info courtesy of the Globe and Mail dated August 18th, 2003 in case anyone's interested.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030818/GTDIVE/Travel/Idx

What I'd like to know is which "diving symposium" was it unveiled at and were there any other wrecks discussed?

 

[sparky30]

Here is some more interesting info courtesy of the Globe and Mail dated August 18th, 2003 in case anyone's interested.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030818/GTDIVE/Travel/Idx

What I'd like to know is which "diving symposium" was it unveiled at and were there any other wrecks discussed?

Maybe it was Shipwrecks 200X... There were some othere articles in the Standard about the wreck.. They referred to it as the Millenium Wreck. The only reason I keep calling it Tiller is because someone (I think it was NINJA) gave it that name after seeing the huge Tiller instead of the wheel.
Let me know if you find out more about the survey.. I'd be interested in more details.. I wonder what it was like to see her for the first time.. Must have been amazing..

 

[sparky30]

-- SNIP --
As to all the stuff beiing documented, it wasn't, as I understand it, they didn't have the "OK" to do anything inside the wreck. .
-- SNIP --
Steve

I didn't know that... Interesting.. I didn't realize that the permits could be restricted to certain areas of a wreck.
I wonder why the permit would be restriced? If someone is already doing the work, why not include the whole thing.
I would also be interested in finding out how many dives it took (and perhaps total bottom time) to survey the wreck...
I can just imagine the process on dry land without gear and 100+ ft of water.. it would take a long time.
The logistics of a project like this must be massive.