Wreck Penetrations?

[DevonDiver]

How do you quantify a agency?

Agency:

: a business that provides a particular service (i.e. diver training, or cave diver training)

In this context, the above definition suffices. There's no need for quantification of basic English terms that exist in the dictionary.

What is your definition on "agencies of note"?

The word 'Leading' is suitable for what I had in mind...

Leading:

: having great importance, influence, or success

: most important

: coming or ranking first / foremost

: exercising leadership

: providing direction or guidance

That said, specifically in relation to "agencies of note", the word noteworthy might be relevant:

Noteworthy:

: worthy of or attracting attention especially because of some special excellence



So, for the purposes of discussion, a 'cave agency of note' might be defined by;

" A diving training agency exercising leadership in cave diving... and/or worthy of; or attracting attention especially because of, some special excellence in the field of cave diving training ".


Another way to look at is - is whether cave diving is the foremost, or primary focus of the agency concerned. Or, to what degree cave-specific tuition features in their overall prospectus of training courses.

 

[sigxbill]

Andy,I am pretty certain that if you were to compare a random sample of cave divers, to a random sample of 'technical wreck' certified divers, you would find that the buoyancy control of the cavers was superior. I was an avid wreck diver with some advanced wreck training, and also an ow instructor - then I took a cave class - a very humbling experience!As far as 'agencies of note' are concerned, tecrec isn't even an agency ... and in fact, it's technical wreck courses are so un-notable, that you can't even find it at padi's website.Regarding days of training and prerequisites for cave vs 'technical wreck', you are not taking one very important fact into account: Cave is only about overhead penetration skills, while 'technical wreck' is two courses combined - technical (extended range, ie. depth, decompression and gas) AND advanced wreck (penetration). Since ANDI is all about mixed gas, their advanced wreck course only comes one way - penetration combined with mixed gas technical. IANTD offers the course separate as Advanced Wreck, or combined as Technical Wreck.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Now if you are talking about the Andrea Doria, I suspect being cave certified would just be a starting point for that type of wreck!

Yeah, one word sums that up: Ormsby.

 

[DevonDiver]

Andy,I am pretty certain that if you were to compare a random sample of cave divers, to a random sample of 'technical wreck' certified divers, you would find that the buoyancy control of the cavers was superior.

That seems a ludicrous assumption to make.

Actually, most of the technical wreck divers I know, are also cavers.. LOL

Maybe it's a regional thing...

I was an avid wreck diver with some advanced wreck training, and also an ow instructor - then I took a cave class - a very humbling experience!

Considering the similarities in skill syllabus between wreck and cave... and a virtual-identical necessity to avoid contact with the environment and/or silt.. why wouldn't technical wreck training necessitate the same level of foundational skills as full cave?

Technical wreck is considered, by many, as a pinnacle-level course. Entry onto the course is recommended only for 'experienced' technical divers. Graduation from the course demands that...

As far as 'agencies of note' are concerned, tecrec isn't even an agency ... and in fact, it's technical wreck courses are so un-notable, that you can't even find it at padi's website.

TecRec is merely the branding applied by PADI to it's technical diving activities. PADI is still the agency.

PADI don't have a technical wreck course. Although a small few instructors offer it as a distinctive (personally approved) specialty.

Cave is only about overhead penetration skills, while 'technical wreck' is two courses combined - technical (extended range, ie. depth, decompression and gas) AND advanced wreck (penetration).

That is incorrect. In every instance I know of, Technical Wreck is a completely stand-alone course. Just like Full Cave is...

Technical diving qualification is a prerequisite to technical wreck. Both technical wreck and full cave have many prerequisite qualifications needed... including open water. Open Water isn't part of technical wreck either btw...

Since ANDI is all about mixed gas, their advanced wreck course only comes one way - penetration combined with mixed gas technical. IANTD offers the course separate as Advanced Wreck, or combined as Technical Wreck.

I teach the ANDI Technical Wreck course. I am very familiar with it. It isn't a combination course. It is entirely overhead-environment specific for wreck penetration beyond the light zone and through restrictions.

The training dives may involve decompression, so decompression diving is prerequisite qualification. That is all.

 

[Akimbo]

Andy,I am pretty certain that if you were to compare a random sample of cave divers, to a random sample of 'technical wreck' certified divers, you would find that the buoyancy control of the cavers was superior...

Who cares? A lot of people here seem to feel that buoyancy control is some kind of Holy Grail for wreck diving. Nonsense. It is a desirable skill, but very low on the list and should be mastered long before a decompression course — let alone wreck penetration.

You can’t pull off a helicopter turn in tight spaces typical on submarines and in most spaces on small vessels or highly compartmented war ships. You couldn’t pass another sailor shoulder to shoulder in most passageways before they were wrecks. Why bother making mid-water turns on your axis in an aircraft carrier hanger?

Divers generate far less turbulence in wrecks by maneuvering with two fingers and pulling themselves in tight spaces. Wrecks aren’t coral reefs full of delicate life. They are dark and dead spaces covered with rust, rotting debris, and silt.

Here is what I think about managing disturbing silt

 

[sigxbill]

you are right, who cares. But it's probably why cavers generally have a higher opinion of their skills than those of wreck divers ...