Wreck Penetration?

[diver 85]

Who trained Sheck?

..........God........

 

[Trixxie]

The one(s) enforced by The Grim Reaper himself.

He collects the souls of fools and unfortunates for his dark kingdom. They become his slaves forever.

Good Answer... of course this doens't apply to just caves but any overhead environment.

 

[miketsp]

Entering any kind of overhead environment is a risk, and the magnitude of the risk isn't always obvious.

For example, you enter an easy swim-through at 80', discover it's single file, the person in front of you is stopped, someone came up behind you and you just ran out of air.

Or you enter a seemingly harmless wreck, stir up the silt while looking at something and lose your exit.

This isn't to say that every swim-though and sanitized school-bus or helicopter is a death-trap, only that an overhead environment presents additional risks that OW divers are not taught how to handle, and it really is possible to die there if something unexpected happens.

Terry

Ain't that true?

One interesting dive site I know is the Caverna da Sapata in Fernando de Noronha, This is a chamber with an entrance at 18m, some 15m high at the highest point (a chimney) and about 30m long. This is a regularly dived site with hundreds of visits per year and many of the divers are total newbies or relatively inexperienced.
The bottom is very fine silt and normally everyone takes care and stays well off it with the usual threats that if anyone stirs the bottom they'll have to buy beer all round.

Anyway we were doing a night dive in a group of about 12 divers and we headed in.
Inside there were five or six large turtles that became quite agitated with our entry.

The dive instantly became chaotic and viz dropped to a few cm in just a few seconds.

As the clouds of silt billowed up I just had time for a quick compass bearing to the entrance, then I grabbed my wife and headed out on that bearing.

The others came out one by one by feeling their way around the walls - simple chamber with only one entrance. A few of them quite shook up.

If that had been a compartment in a ship with multiple exits, we'd have lost a few divers. Even a simple OOA in that situation would have been complicated.

 

[Walter]

I think this is the first time I've ever been 100% in agreement with Walter.

Hang in there, soon you'll be agreeing more and more.

In my first post, I was referncing the "rules" of "recreational penetration", e.g. no more than 130ft linear penetration, in the daylight zone, etc.

Who wrote them and by what authority?

This is still recognized as recreational diving.

You're either diving for pay or you're diving for recreation.

As I suspect that you are aware, Mr Exley took the ball and ran with it, then passed his knowledge on to many others.

I am aware. That was my point. So you believe "Until a diver is exposed to cavern, cave, or wreck TRAINING you just don't have a clue about all the novel, creative, and interesting ways to get yourself killed," applied to Sheck? Since he had no cavern, cave, or wreck TRAINING he didn't have a clue?

 

[battles2a5]

Who wrote them and by what authority?

You're either diving for pay or you're diving for recreation.

Walter, I don't feel like getting in a pissing match on the internet. Those "rules" I referred to are generally accepted limits to what 99.9% of the sport diving world would refer to as "recreational" diving, as in no deco, no overhead, snorkels and giggles diving. I'm pretty sure the PADI standards say no more than 130ft linear penetration and ambient light zone but I'm not positive. Beyond those you are doing what most of us would consider "technical" dives which require more extensive training, techniques, and equipment. Most people understand this so I didn't feel the need to explain the difference between the two.

Now, if you refer to my ORIGINAL post, which you so kindy butchered, I indicated that even when diving within the commonly accepted "recreational" standards, the appropriate training is greatly recommended. So I wish I could say that we are both in heated agreement, but I'm sure you'll find some other problem w/ the way I've worded things here.

 

[nereas]

Good Answer... of course this doens't apply to just caves but any overhead environment.

Nice graphic!

I did not realize that NACD had coined this, however it is perfectly appropo.

Many who are young-and-dumb do not believe they are mortal. Often they find out quickly much to their surprise.

 

[MBH]

So you believe "Until a diver is exposed to cavern, cave, or wreck TRAINING you just don't have a clue about all the novel, creative, and interesting ways to get yourself killed," applied to Sheck? Since he had no cavern, cave, or wreck TRAINING he didn't have a clue?

Yes Walter, that is exactly what I believe. I'm sure Mr Exley made a lot of mistakes and had quite a few close calls. Thanks to Sheck and many other early cave explorers we now have a good solid set of techniques and protocols that allow us to avoid and escape situations that can prove to be fatal. We don't have to make the mistakes that early cave divers made.

A diver with no overhead training will most likely not know;

To get in the water, let their tanks cool, figure tank factors, and then correctly calculate thirds.

Do a bubble check and an s-drill

Know when, where, and how to run a reel.

Know what a line trap is and how to avoid them

Does the second man in the team know to check each tie off and wrap.

Hand signals

Light signals

Touch contact signals

Air share exits

Lights out air share line exits

Bump and go exits

Syphons and flow

And the list goes on and on

 

[Nick_W]

Hang in there, soon you'll be agreeing more and more.

Are you going to be making more posts about how it would be great to die while recreationally penetrating something?

 

[texdiveguy]

I was sitting around the Fire Station late last night and was just watching videos on youtube of people diving on different wrecks. I noticed in a majority of the videos that all the divers were going in and out of the wrecks. One of the videos was of an airplane wreck. They would just go in one door and out the other or may just turn and go into the cockpit for a very brief period of time. I was always taught that not to go into any overhead environments if your not trained. Now not saying that they werent trained or whatever but could an OW diver still go into something like a small cessna for a very brief period of time and still be ok? I have been on dives before off the coast of panama city and have noticed OW divers doing this very same thing. Just wanting your thought on this. Thanks

OP....I think we all should not dive beyond our training and experience level...that includes O/W, Wreck, Cave diving. As divers we all should use common sense when sizing up any dive location, even when discovered on the 'fly'. For divers wishing to pursue structural overhead diving whether NDL or deco should seek out appropriate training and instruction and be physically and mentally up to the challenge and be properly equipted with appropriate gear and skilled in its use. Be SAFE and use your head...have fun.

 

[String]

Must admit i have no idea what idiot dreamed up "recreational diving" but i HATE that term. Its completely meaningless.

If im diving for fun, for a hobby its recreational no matter what type of diving it is. If i do a 6m dive on a reef for fun or a 70m trimix accelerated deco dive for fun its still recreational.
It becomes commercial when someone pays me to do it, otherwise its all for fun.

The term has been widely abused and blurred to attempt to classify some diving into an artificial box. I wish it would go away.